DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast
36: Diagnosing Your Leadership Potential

36: Diagnosing Your Leadership Potential

May 5, 2021

“A New Era of Leadership” course will go live later this month on DocWorking.com!  Please click here to let us know you’re interested, and we will keep you updated.

“‘There’re many intricacies around all the ways in which I see adapting leadership approaches can have really positive long lasting impacts across all areas of healthcare, so this is why I'm really passionate about it.” -Lisa Kuzman 

In this episode, Cohost and DocWorking Coach Jill Farmer talks with leadership expert Lisa Kuzman to discuss Lisa’s innovative approach to leadership in healthcare. Leadership can be tricky if it gets thrust upon you, but performing successfully in a leadership role can also be really rewarding. In this episode, the conversation focuses on helpful ways to uncover your leadership potential as well as your own personal leadership style. This perspective can be very beneficial in understanding yourself, your team, and tailoring your leadership style to play to your strengths. So tune in and diagnose your leadership potential today!

 

 

Lisa Kuzman is a clinical social worker turned Leadership Coach for Women of Influence, who helps her clients understand how to create massive change without re-traumatizing themselves. She also provides trauma-sensitive certification and supervision for coaches in the personal development industry

 

By blending her 15 years of mental health experience in healthcare, learnings from entrepreneurship, and personal trauma survivorship she supports her clients with understanding how the high-risk threshold of running a business and showing up as a leader can trigger old stuff that needs to be attended to rather than ignored so it doesn't block one’s ability to create change. 

 

While physicians earn a great wage and hold positions of power, medical training doesn’t adequately prepare one for the leadership acumen required to manage their multifaceted roles. Lisa’s approach to leadership, her background in healthcare, and her understanding of trauma offer unique insights that physicians can apply to every area of their lives. She is also the host of Serving it Hot, a podcast about women in leadership. You can find her website here or follow her on Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn

Excerpts from the show:

 

“What ends up happening is that the thing you're really good at gets you the promotion and gets you this title and responsibility, but those aren't the things you really want to be doing because they're not the things you're really good at. So what ends up happening is all of a sudden there's this extra pressure because there are these other responsibilities beyond your zone of genius and you're not prepared for it. So you're prepared, of course, to do the thing you're really good at, but the element of leadership skills is what's missing from stepping into that new role. And people just kind of think, ‘Oh you're super smart, you're really good at what you do. Obviously you'll be great at this leadership role! And then that's not always the case that it feels so good to the person who accepts that position.” -Lisa Kuzman

“It's such an important part of leadership in my opinion and it's something that is often missed especially in healthcare. There're elements of the natural make up of who we are as people, part of our personality, part of the real vulnerable elements of what makes us human that other humans can connect with. And people who end up, in the example that you just used, getting promoted into this position, I call the accidental leader. Accidental leaders often are like, ‘Why are you not just doing it?’ They don't see the need necessarily to provide the leadership guidance because they just expect that that's part of what people know they're supposed to do. But then that's a part of their job requirement so by embracing your humor, actually doing relationship building, owning some of the parts of your personality around your natural gifts and skills. So I think even taking a personality test is something that I really encourage new leaders to do. Because when you don't know yourself very well it can be hard to know what to delegate, what you should hold responsibility for and how to actually navigate that in a way that's going to feel good to you. Because there's enough difficulty with leadership anyway, if you're doing it in a way that feels really in conflict with your natural make up that is going to be something that's going to make it even harder.” -Lisa Kuzman

“There’s so much burnout happening in healthcare that is not being really discussed or addressed and a part of it has to do with the systems at play. And when it comes to leadership, if we don't start getting rid of the antiquated ways of showing up, like for instance compartmentalization, that's a big thing that happens often in healthcare. You can't bring your home to work and you don't take your work home. Well that's not really how life works. It's very hard to do that and it leaves a lot of humanity off the table. So when we think about burnout and we think about these structures and we think about the way that things are just generally shifting, even millennials, you know the things that millennials are wanting in their workspaces as well. We are being called to create change because what's been working for all of this time is not effective anymore. I would venture a guess that it wasn't always effective and everybody just kind of adopted it, but that adaptability around those old structures and making it work, that's not working anymore.” -Lisa Kuzman

Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

Get One-on-One Coaching with Master-Certified Coach Jill Farmer

 

DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians.

Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable. Our Coaches Will Show You How!

 

We have exciting news! Our live course, STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back is coming soon! Life is too short to be stretched so thin. Do you want more time to focus on what matters most to you? Our power packed plan fits easily into your busy day! Coaches Gabriella and Jill have taken all their best strategies from coaching hundreds of physicians over multiple years and folded them into one efficient course. You can easily practice these bite-sized strategies on your timeline: anytime, anywhere. Are you ready to invest in yourself, reclaim your time and minimize stress? Click here

 

To learn more about DocWorking, visit us here!

 

Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Please email Amanda, our producer at Amanda@docworking.com to apply.

 

And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!

 

We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunesSpotifyiHeart RadioGoogle, Pandora, PlayerFMListenNotesAmazonYouTubePodbean

 

Some links in our blogs and show notes are affiliate links, and purchases made via those links may result in small payments to DW. These help toward our production costs. Thank you for supporting DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast!

 

Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.

 

Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran

35: Perfectionism: Why 100% at Everything Doesn’t Add Up

35: Perfectionism: Why 100% at Everything Doesn’t Add Up

May 3, 2021

 

“Giving yourself room to breathe, and at the same time that pressure to perform, perform, perform, was alleviated tremendously. So I think it's just finding those little hacks that make a big, big difference.” -Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

 

It’s understandable that you strive for perfection in your work life, but is it spilling over into your personal life too?

 

In today’s episode, Coaches Gabriella and Jill sit down to discuss perfectionism. You’ll hear why perfectionism can be so harmful, and different ways to combat this trait. 

 

Let’s just go ahead and say it, perfection is unattainable, and trying to reach it can cause undue stress and anxiety. So let’s give ourselves a break and find the areas of our lives where 50-80% is enough, so that we can have the energy to put in more effort in the areas where lives depend on it. 

 

 

 

Excerpts from the show:

 

“It’s stressful. The need to get that A+ all the time, get that letter of recommendation, get into a reputable residency program, pass the boards, etc. etc., get more letters of recommendation etc. Depending on your ambition and your aspirations and where you want to go, especially if you’re on an academic track, publishing, researching, etc. etc. It's a lot of pressure 24/7. And that pressure really starts early. It starts in undergrad when you're thinking about getting into med school and what you need to get the grades to get through the MCATs etc. etc. So there's not only that drive but it's accepted that somehow you have to be perfect and there's a lot of self judgment that goes around if you don't quite make the mark in your own estimation. It's not even in somebody else's. It's in your own estimation. After a while it becomes so automatic that it's something that becomes part of you. 

I was reading an article from a psychologist who was talking about a university student saying that they worked really, really hard to get that A+, and they wanted to get that A+ and they got it. And then at the end, they said, ‘Well if it was really mine to have, I shouldn't have had to work so hard for it.’  Instead of saying, ‘Yeah I got my A+!’  So that need to be perfect prevents yourself from even celebrating the wins.” -Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

 

 

“I think it is so detrimental. Psychological research has shown that this is associated with depression, with suicidal ideations, and anxiety, this chasing chasing chasing. Chasing what exactly? So this becomes a given particularly in physicians. You're taking care of other people. You don't want to make mistakes. You want to make sure you get it right because somebody's life could be at risk. So it's trying to find that balance to say, ‘You know what, 80% is enough,’ and to get to that conclusion. To get to that ‘80% is good enough,’ that takes some work. Personally, it was years of being able to undo that habit. Of being able to say, ‘No, I don't have to be perfect, it has to be good.’ Because I'm not the only one involved in that person's care. I'm not the only one who has ideas and opinions and thoughts about that person's care. Or about how I even run my own life, because that spills over into personal life as well, (thinking,) ‘Everything has to be done right and I have to take care of everything.’ So to be able to say, ‘No, let me enlist people because I can’t take care of everything. I don't have all the ideas. Other people have other expertise that I can lean on.’ That was a big lesson for me personally as a physician.” -Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

 

 

“I had a beautiful experience of witnessing an insight for a physician several years ago, who was in her 50s and very burned out, and really struggling with that at that point in her career. Feeling like, ‘What have I done all this for? I'm so exhausted, I don't care like I used to,’ and all the things that show up in burnout. Through our conversations all of a sudden one day her eyes opened really wide and she actually started weeping and she said, ‘This is the first time in my whole life since I can remember, (since) when I was trying to get straight A's in sixth grade because I wanted to be a doctor someday, that I realized that I can want to do certain aspects of my life at a very high level of achievement, like taking care of the patient, like putting the extra in to make sure that I'm doing everything I can to take care of them. But I don't need to be at 100% in most other parts of my life.’  She said, ‘I know it sounds crazy but it just didn't dawn on me.’ It's like, ok, if I'm giving away all the crap that's loaded up in my garage, I don't need to find the perfect place to take every box, or if I need to feed my family, I don't need to have the perfect mix of macro nutrients. Because she started to realize that level of trying to pressurize herself with perfection in every other aspect was not allowing her to do the great job that she wanted to do in the one place where it mattered most.” -Master Certified Coach, Jill Farmer

 

“The thing I would say most importantly to everybody listening is, can you get more nuanced? Less of that distorted ‘all or nothing’ thinking. ‘Either I do it at 100 or I don't do it at all.’ Can you be more nuanced, and really be curious about your own life, and say, what are the areas where you're throwing in a lot more effort? If 51% is good enough then the amount of time you spend to get up to 100% is incrementally and exponentially a lot higher. How can you play with that?” -Master Certified Coach, Jill Farmer

 

Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

Get One-on-One Coaching with Master-Certified Coach Jill Farmer

 

DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians.

Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable. Our Coaches Will Show You How!

 

We have exciting news! Our live course, STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back is coming soon! Life is too short to be stretched so thin. Do you want more time to focus on what matters most to you? Our power packed plan fits easily into your busy day! Coaches Gabriella and Jill have taken all their best strategies from coaching hundreds of physicians over multiple years and folded them into one efficient course. You can easily practice these bite-sized strategies on your timeline: anytime, anywhere. Are you ready to invest in yourself, reclaim your time and minimize stress? Click here

 

To learn more about DocWorking, visit us here!

 

Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Please email Amanda, our producer at Amanda@docworking.com to apply.

 

And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!

 

We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunesSpotifyiHeart RadioGoogle, Pandora, PlayerFMListenNotesAmazonYouTubePodbean

 

Some links in our blogs and show notes are affiliate links, and purchases made via those links may result in small payments to DW. These help toward our production costs. Thank you for supporting DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast!

 

Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.

 

Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran

34: Q&A Friday: Imposter Syndrome and How To Ditch It

34: Q&A Friday: Imposter Syndrome and How To Ditch It

April 30, 2021

“Begin to create a new script in our heads about ourselves, that looks more like how the person who knows, likes and believes in us the most talks about us.” -Master Certified Coach, Jill Farmer 

 

In today’s episode, Coach Gabriella and Coach Jill answer a question from a listener about how to flip the script on imposter syndrome. Is imposter syndrome something that you have experienced or are experiencing? You’re not alone. Psychologists tell us that imposter syndrome is more common among high achieving people (source). That’s great, but what can you do to combat it? Tune in to find out! 

Question: “Going all the way back to medical school, I feel like getting accepted was a fluke. I had friends who would have made excellent physicians, probably better than me, who didn't get in. I've been working in private practice as a board-certified physician for years but still sometimes when I'm working I imagine making a mistake and being outed as an imposter like, ‘She's a fake, the jig is up’. Sounds like classic imposter syndrome right? Until I started listening to your podcast, I never even questioned myself in this way of thinking but now I'm wondering is there something I can do to break this pattern of thinking?

 

 

Excerpts from the show:

 

“I don't think I've worked with a physician in ten years now in my practice as a coach that I haven't had somebody who either is experiencing or has experienced imposter syndrome. Both male and female physicians, surgeons, administrators… it's very common. It's just not always talked about. Everybody thinks they are the only one that is experiencing it. Lest we think that the reason we're experiencing imposter syndrome is because we are just not good enough, I think it's important for us to remember that Serena Williams has said, she too, experienced imposter syndrome. So if somebody as amazing as that, who we all look up to like that, experiences imposter syndrome, I think it reminds us that it happens to us as humans. And, it's not particularly helpful, right? To put it simply in psychological terms, imposter syndrome is feeling like a phony as though at any moment you're going to be found out to be a fraud, like you don't belong where you are, you only got there from dumb luck as was so articulately stated in the question. "The only way to stop feeling like an imposter is really to stop thinking like an imposter. I think that comes from being willing to find somebody that we really trust, whether that's a good friend, a partner, a family member, a coach, a therapist, or a colleague where we can sort of break the silence.” -Master Certified Coach, Jill Farmer

 

“It’s easy to default to that negativity bias because it's just kind of ingrained and programmed which means that getting back into the opposite, you actually have to train yourself. You have to practice it. You have to work at it very deliberately. So I love lists and I encourage my clients to write out lists. Name five things you accomplished today. Name five things you're grateful for today. It has to become an active practice, it can't just be, ok, it's not going to fall out of the sky and you're not going to undo the negative bias by simply wishing it away. You have to actively work at it to create new programming in your head, in your brain. “No, I'm not perfect and no, I can't do everything, but I’ve done pretty good and this is what I have accomplished and I feel good about that” as a way to again counteract imposter syndrome. It has to be an active, inside out process.” -Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

 

“Humility is one of twenty-one values in action that's defined by people in the realm of organizational psychology that looks at achievement and success. So it's valuable, but then a lot of times humility becomes a cover story. Where is it dialed up on the range? Is it a five, which is a healthy humility? Or is it dialed up at a ten, which then creates a situation where the dial of confidence gets dialed down to a zero. So, it's how do we blend those values in action in a way that allows us to be both humble and confident? Those two things can coexist and they coexist beautifully. It's important to note that psychologists tell us that imposter syndrome is more common in high achieving people. It's kind of ironic, but it's more common in people who tend to be extremely high achieving. Because they are often surrounded by other high achieving people and so then we get into the comparison thing and the patterns and ruts that we've already talked about.” -Master Certified Coach, Jill Farmer

 

“I used to say to my violin teacher that it’s good to be humble but it's a waste of time to be modest. Because modesty means that you're kind of giving yourself an inferiority complex. But humility, really by definition, is about standing in your own power and your own worth and yes it takes work and practice and process to get there. But that to me is the difference between, as you said, dialing it up to the point where you're diminishing yourself versus keeping it at a five, that good balanced range. So don’t be modest, be humble. But don’t be modest, throw that out the door.” -Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

 

Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

Get One-on-One Coaching with Master-Certified Coach Jill Farmer

 

DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians.

Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable. Our Coaches Will Show You How!

 

We have exciting news! Our live course, STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back is coming soon! Life is too short to be stretched so thin. Do you want more time to focus on what matters most to you? Our power packed plan fits easily into your busy day! Coaches Gabriella and Jill have taken all their best strategies from coaching hundreds of physicians over multiple years and folded them into one efficient course. You can easily practice these bite-sized strategies on your timeline: anytime, anywhere. Are you ready to invest in yourself, reclaim your time and minimize stress? Click here

 

To learn more about DocWorking, visit us here!

 

Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Please email Amanda, our producer at Amanda@docworking.com to apply.

 

And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!

 

We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunesSpotifyiHeart RadioGoogle, Pandora, PlayerFMListenNotesAmazonYouTubePodbean

 

Some links in our blogs and show notes are affiliate links, and purchases made via those links may result in small payments to DW. These help toward our production costs. Thank you for supporting DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast!

 

Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.

 

Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran

 

33: Physician Food Blogger: Interview With Dr. Joanne Stekler

33: Physician Food Blogger: Interview With Dr. Joanne Stekler

April 28, 2021

“You’re not going to be happy ‘when.’ I (previously) thought, ‘I'll be happy when I finish residency (etc)...’  It's really important to just be happy now. To do something that you love, to be in a place that you love, to be around people who make you feel good about yourself. I think prioritizing yourself and your happiness is really important.” -Dr. Joanne Stekler 

In today’s episode, Jen talks with renowned HIV expert, Dr. Joanne Stekler. Dr. Stekler is a leader in her field of medicine, and has been instrumental in creating an app to help people find HIV resources, testing and preprophylaxis treatment, HealthMindr. In her spare time, she has a wonderful cooking blog, UglyDucklingBakery.com

 

Have you ever been interested in creating an app or a blog of your own? If so, tune it to find out what it takes and how to get started! 

 

During the episode, Dr. Stekler refers to DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast Episode 29 when she says, “One of the things from a previous podcast was about the analysis paralysis that doctors face.” Listen to that episode by clicking here.

 

Excerpts from the show:

 

“How does HealthMindr help you reach out to the underserved populations that have difficulty getting access (to HIV testing and prophylaxis)?” -Dr. Jen Barna

 

“If you back up to the 1990s, the internet didn't exist and one of the first things as we moved into the 2000s is that people were using the internet to find sex. And you thought, as a public health person, ‘Well, if people are using the Internet to find sex, can we use the internet to help them access prevention and testing and research and all those other things?’ So very early on I said, ‘I’m going to build an app!’ I think I had ten thousand dollars to build this app and try to help people find resources. That's what got me interested in what I'll put under the umbrella of electronic or mobile health and other related technologies.  And so in a partnership with Patrick Sullivan at Emory University, we did some work trying to understand what men who are at risk for HIV acquisition would want in an app. Do they want sex diaries, do they want all sorts of other things? And it started off in PrEP. So in 2010 or something like that, thinking about how do we encourage people to get on regular HIV testing schedules, (the recommendation is that folks who are sexually active should get tested for HIV once a year and if they are at particular risk to get tested every three months or so), how do we help them get reminders to get an HIV test? So this app started off really HIV testing focused, and then when PrEP HIV (pre-exposure prophylaxis) got approved in 2012, we incorporated asking people about PrEP, and what we realized from some of our initial work with HealthMindr is that people were accessing the app for information and for locating resources. So what we're testing right now in the southeast part of the United States is whether or not access to this app with information and assessments for what is your risk, should you be on PrEP, do you need post exposure prophylaxis, and how to find those resources, and whether having access to that app will get people on PrEP. That's what we're testing right now, we’re in I think year four of a five-year project.” -Dr. Joanne Stekler

“How did you find time to start a blog?” -Dr. Jen Barna

 

“I always do too much and whatever I do I do it to the fullest extent that I can, that's the short answer. I think, you know, again, I've always been cooking and baking all my life and I think I started baking more and doing bread when my kiddo went to school and I had to start providing her lunches. It's like, we need bread and you realize the store bread is just not as good as something that you can make at home. So then I started making bread a couple times a week and then it was the sort of sharing of all my cooking on social media that happened at the start of the pandemic. You know I’d always been doing it, and occasionally I'd been posting, ‘Hey look at this fun thing that I've made’ but it wasn't every day, it certainly wasn't once a month. Then when the pandemic started in February and March, as an infectious disease doc, I was trying to help my network of about 400 to 500 folks who are Facebook friends with me, some of whom are docs but many of whom aren’t, to try and make sense of all the information and fear that was happening in February and March of last year. I started feeling guilty about how much Covid information I was sharing and I wanted to make sure that I was sharing some other thing. I decided one day to ask everybody a question about bean burgers because I've been a vegetarian for ten years in my past and I love a good bean burger, I just find the homemade ones to be so mushy. So I just asked them, ‘What can I do to make my bean burgers less mushy?’ and my friends, a lot of whom are cooks, started sharing all sorts of tips. Put it in corn starch or add some vital wheat gluten or dry the beans. Drying the beans was the answer. Dry the beans for ten to fifteen minutes in the oven and that really helps. I've also added quinoa. There's a whole post you can read on my blog about all the steps that I've done. You know, it’s not a beef burger,  it's never going to be, but I think it's now a good vehicle for cheese and condiments and everything else that you want in a burger.” -Dr. Joanne Stekler

“How do these different parts of your life as a physician, researcher, patient advocate, mom and blogger intersect?” -Dr Jen Barna

 

“Well, I can't turn off any part of me so something that I’ve learned as a food blogger potentially might influence me as a doctor and vice versa. I came up with five rules, or advice, to live by that I think are equally applicable regardless of what part of my life we're talking about:

 

Lesson 1: There are always going to be people who cheat and who take advantage of other people, who don't share and who really are just climbing. My advice is, Don't be one of those people. 

 

Lesson 2: It's really important to identify a niche. So this is something that, as an academic physician, you learn very early on when you're starting a fellowship. Everyone tells you, ‘Identify one place where you can be the expert.’ For me it was acute HIV infection, recognition of symptoms and HIV testing. So if anybody had a question or needed a speaker they would think, ‘Oh, I need to ask Joanne’. Then, as I've gotten more experience and more stable funding I've been able to expand my niche but it's really important to focus, again both in academia as well as in blogging. And I think it's important that that area is something that you love and you're good at and it's important to recognize that there's room for everyone in all of these worlds. Everyone has a voice. But start small and realize that you have to solve a problem for other people. 

One of the things I thought as a blogger was that I'm going to all of a sudden be posting recipes and sharing my pictures and people are going to come to me and love me, and that isn't true at all. One of the podcasts I listen to gave the metaphor of going into Times Square and saying, ‘Look at me, come to me’ and that's not the way it works. 

You have to identify a group of people, your ideal customer avatar for blogging purposes, and figure out what problem they have and what problems you need to solve. Not everyone can be the Steve Jobs of identifying something that people don't even know that they're missing in their lives. Not everybody can be Steve Jobs but there are lots of problems out there, and whether it's in medicine or in blogging or in any other field, figure out what the problem is and try to solve it. 

 

Lesson 3: Which I find so important, it's about community and mentoring. No matter what part of our world we're talking about, we need to have community, we need to have peers we can talk to, we need to have people that we can learn from. I think it's important to learn from senior mentors who have the experience. It's important to learn from your peers because they're going through many of the things that you're going through and it's also important to learn from your mentees. Especially as I've gotten older I'm working with younger folks who have a different perspective and especially in social media it's important to learn what everybody's doing and to teach and to learn what excites other people. 

So find your community, find a mentor, find people to mentor yourself. 

 

Lesson 4: Then I'm learning from this blogging world that success is a combination of luck and being in the right place at the right time, and recognizing that you're in the right place and right time, and running with something, and being persistent about it. 

So I don't want to give you more details right now, I may have something in the works that I'm hoping to advance and I don't want to curse myself. 

 

Lesson 5: Don't be afraid of self-promotion. Now don't be a braggart, but it's really important to let people know what you're working on because life isn't fair. We all think, ‘I’m going to go and I'm going to do great work and people are going to recognize me for my great work,’ but unfortunately that’s not the way it works. You have to introduce yourself and introduce yourself to people who make decisions and let them know who you are and let them know what you're working on and let them know about yourself because then when your grants are being reviewed or your papers are being reviewed, they'll say, ‘Oh I know Joanne, I met her at a meeting,’ and this is unfortunately the way the world works. So let people know who you are and what you're working on and don't be afraid to do that whether or not it's in medicine or on social media. 

But the caveat is to turn off social media because it's the biggest time suck in the world. And once you get to the point where it's not advancing what your goals are, turn it off. Go for a walk, go for a run, go enjoy the day, spend time with your family and you know, at the end of the day, that's what we have.” -Dr. Joanne Stekler

________________

Dr. Joanne Stekler's research centers on HIV testing and HIV prevention. She is a national expert on HIV tests, particularly focused on acute HIV infection and point-of-care testing. She started the first community-based clinic for HIV pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP) in Seattle and is currently working to increase access to PrEP and PrEP adherence across Washington State. Source: https://sph.washington.edu/faculty/facbio/Stekler_Joanne

 

She received her Bachelor of Arts from Williams College, her Doctor of Medicine (MD) from Duke University and her MPH in epidemiology from the University of Washington.

You can find Dr. Joanne Stekler on Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, Pinterest and in this Facebook Group

 

 

Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

 

Get One-on-One Coaching with Master-Certified Coach Jill Farmer

DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians.

Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable. Our Coaches Will Show You How!

 

We have exciting news! Our live course, STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back is coming soon! Life is too short to be stretched so thin. Do you want more time to focus on what matters most to you? Our power packed plan fits easily into your busy day! Coaches Gabriella and Jill have taken all their best strategies from coaching hundreds of physicians over multiple years and folded them into one efficient course. You can easily practice these bite-sized strategies on your timeline: anytime, anywhere. Are you ready to invest in yourself, reclaim your time and minimize stress? Click here

 

To learn more about DocWorking, visit us here!

 

Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Please email Amanda, our producer at Amanda@docworking.com to apply.

 

And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!

 

We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunesSpotifyiHeart RadioGoogle, Pandora, PlayerFMListenNotesAmazonYouTubePodbean

 

Some links in our blogs and show notes are affiliate links, and purchases made via those links may result in small payments to DW. These help toward our production costs. Thank you for supporting DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast!

 

Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.

 

Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran

32: What We Can Learn From the Navy SEALs

32: What We Can Learn From the Navy SEALs

April 26, 2021

“We can’t control what happens in our life, but we can control how we respond to it.” -Master Certified Coach, Jill Farmer

 

In today’s episode Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer talks with us about what we can learn from the Navy SEALs. We know that being a Navy SEAL is an extremely difficult job, we know that it is a highly stressful career. But did you know that researchers have found that they handle that stress extremely well? So what qualities do the Navy SEALs possess that help them move through these highly stressful and pressurized situations so well? Jill breaks it down for us in hopes that we can use some of these tools in our own lives to manage stress and become more resilient. 

 

Books and other resources mentioned in the show:

There’s Not Enough Time:…and other lies we tell ourselves by Jill Farmer

Antifragile: Things That Gain from Disorder (Incerto) by Nassim Nicholas Taleb

Mindset: The New Psychology of Success by Carol S. Dweck

Stress Management: Enhance your well-being by reducing stress and building resilience Prepared by the editors of Harvard Health Publishing in consultation with Gregory Fricchione, MD, Director, Benson-Henry Institute for Mind Body Medicine at Massachusetts General Hospital and Mind Body Medical Institute Professor of Psychiatry, Harvard Medical School. 53 pages. (2020)

 

 

Excerpts from the show:

 

“It's common when you're reading articles about things like resilience and the ability to work under pressure, people keep talking about the Navy SEALs. And I was always like, ‘What is it with the Navy SEALs that seems to be so interesting to organizational psychologists and people that talk about performance?’ It's really interesting to research it just a little bit. So I'm going to share a little bit about what I learned and give you some practical, tactical, tangible ways that you can take some of the things that work well for the Navy SEALs into your practice and your life as well. For those of you that are not military experts, as I am not, a Navy SEAL is an elite special ops force that's within the Navy and it stands for sea, air and land. It's a special operations training that's very very hard to even be considered for, and for the thousands of recruits who actually meet these really astronomically challenging standards of physical and intellectual ability, you have to be really smart and in incredible physical shape, exceptional in your athletic ability. Only 250 people out of those thousand who get into training actually complete it because the training is really beyond grueling. So I'm not asking you to become superhuman or go through any superhuman training like what we see in the Navy SEALs, it's just to notice one of the things that has been shown as they've been researched time and time again is that they’re in highly stressful and pressurized situations but they seem to be able to handle it extremely well.” -Master Certified Coach, Jill Farmer 

 

“So it's something that I've said for years and I think I even wrote about this in my book, There's Not Enough Time and Other Lies We Tell Ourselves : We can't control what happens in our life but we can control how we respond to it. What I discovered when I was researching this and writing my book about ten years ago, is that a lot of what I was doing in life was reacting, which was the amygdala kind of hijacking my brain and causing me to react without thinking. It was that split-second reaction which can be helpful, but what I wanted to learn how to do better was to respond. To not let my most primitive brain center that can only hear danger and alert signals make fight or flight based decisions for me, but to be able to pause just long enough to respond in a way that was going to create better outcomes, better results. Things are going to turn out better and that's something that the Navy SEALs seem to be really able to do in research that I found that was highlighted recently in a stress management special health report written by Harvard Medical School on enhancing your well-being by reducing stress and building resilience.” -Master Certified Coach, Jill Farmer

 

 

“Nassim Nicholas Taleb, coined the term anti-fragile and he even wrote a book about being antifragile (Antifragile: Things That Gain from Disorder). He defines fragility as the tendency to be damaged by volatility, uncertainty, the kind of things that often create that chronic stress response. He says an anti-fragile person realizes that stress is just the price we pay for being alive. Being antifragile helps us use our strengths to overcome challenges and become stronger in the process which is kind of the definition of resilience. So in this post-Covid year, we’re hearing a lot about resilience and it can feel really hard because we’re in what people like organizational psychologist Adam Grant are calling this languishing state where it's like, ‘Okay we survived it, not necessarily in full burnout mode where I'm paralyzed or not doing anything, but I'm not feeling a lot of juice, mojo or motivation;’ what is described in psychology as languishing. So resilience is that trait where we’re able to kind of dig deep a little bit and move through these challenging situations and move on to a position where we're not just sort of surviving or languishing, but we're actually able to get into what I would describe as thriving mode again.” -Master Certified Coach, Jill Farmer

 

Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

Get One-on-One Coaching with Master-Certified Coach Jill Farmer

 

DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians.

Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable.

Our Coaches Will Show You How!

 

We have exciting news! Our live course, STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back is coming soon! Life is too short to be stretched so thin. Do you want more time to focus on what matters most to you? Our power packed plan fits easily into your busy day! Coaches Gabriella and Jill have taken all their best strategies from coaching hundreds of physicians over multiple years and folded them into one efficient course. You can easily practice these bite-sized strategies on your timeline: anytime, anywhere. Are you ready to invest in yourself, reclaim your time and minimize stress? Click here

 

To learn more about DocWorking, visit us here!

 

Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Please email Amanda, our producer at Amanda@docworking.com to apply.

 

And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!

 

We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunesSpotifyiHeart RadioGoogle, Pandora, PlayerFMListenNotesAmazonYouTubePodbean

 

Some links in our blogs and show notes are affiliate links, and purchases made via those links may result in small payments to DW. These help toward our production costs. Thank you for supporting DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast!

 

Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.

 

Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran

31:  Real Estate Investing With Dr. Saira Ahmed

31: Real Estate Investing With Dr. Saira Ahmed

April 23, 2021

“So one thing I would invest in, and this is a tip that I would give to any entrepreneur, especially if you have multiple things going on: Get an assistant.” -Dr. Saira Ahmed

 

Tune in to today’s episode on real estate investing with Dr. Saira Ahmed. Jen sits down with Dr. Ahmed to discuss how she got started in real estate investing, how she purchased her first properties, what tips and tricks she has learned along the way and how she plans to keep growing her real estate portfolio. If you’ve been interested in getting started in real estate investing, this is the episode for you! 

 

Dr. Ahmed manages a busy practice, Mediversity, she also has a real estate business, a school that trains people to become phlebotomists, Premier Health Academy, an e-commerce business selling scrubs and other medical accessories, A Plus Medical Scrubs, and she and her husband run a non-profit organization through which they do multiple community service projects throughout the year. 

 

Dr. Ahmed went to New York Institute of Technology for her undergraduate degree. Attended Ross University School of Medicine for Medical School and did her residency at Seton Hall University Internal Medicine Residency Program. Her current affiliations are Jefferson Health System and Salem Memorial Medical Center. You can find her on instagram.

 

Useful links to things mentioned in the show: Bigger Pockets, real estate investing community and advice. Book, Rich Dad, Poor Dad: What the Rich Teach Their Kids About Money That the Poor and Middle Class Do Not!

 

Excerpts from the show:

 

“So tell me about how you got into the real estate niche and about your experiences.” -Dr. Jen Barna

 

“Sure, so I kind of already knew about real estate because my parents owned real estate. They owned rentals. Just seeing my parents, well, just to give you some background, my father passed away around five years ago but before that, ten years ago he was actually diagnosed with head and neck cancer and he had to retire immediately, and my mom was a beautician who used to work in a beauty salon and she had to quit her job to take care of my dad. So they found themselves without jobs kind of instantly when all this went down and I think the only thing that saved them was their real estate and that was a real life example that I saw in my life. They were able to do what they needed to do and live, and not have to worry financially because of the real estate they owned.” -Dr. Saira Ahmed

“We basically just started small. At the time we lived in a townhouse. I said, ‘Well the first thing is, let's pay this townhouse off and let's rent it out, (then) let's buy a house and let's rent it out.’ So that was the first thing we did. Then once we got into our house we started to look for deals. I just did it on my own. Honestly, just going through Zillow and Auction.com, finding auctions in my town, just locally anything that was on foreclosure. Just evaluating the deals myself and discussing it with my husband and that's basically how we got started. So just one after the other.” -Dr. Saira Ahmed

“Real estate is the one investment that is solid. Honestly, it's a long-term thing. In a way all these other businesses that we started were kind of started to help support our real estate so that we could invest more eventually. And I think that the goal is to continue building the portfolio. I mean, no projects are perfect. We bought a project and there was something wrong that we didn't realize was wrong before we bought it, and it turns out our budget needed to be bigger to fix that issue. But I think, so far, every project has paid us back.” -Dr Saira Ahmed

 

Please note: When Dr. Ahmed mentions the BBB method from BiggerPockets, she clarified afterwards that she meant the BRRR method: Buy, Renovate, Refinance, Repeat.

 

Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

 

Get One-on-One Coaching with Master-Certified Coach Jill Farmer

DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians.

Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable. Our Coaches Will Show You How!

 

We have exciting news! Our live course, STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back is coming soon! Life is too short to be stretched so thin. Do you want more time to focus on what matters most to you? Our power packed plan fits easily into your busy day! Coaches Gabriella and Jill have taken all their best strategies from coaching hundreds of physicians over multiple years and folded them into one efficient course. You can easily practice these bite-sized strategies on your timeline: anytime, anywhere. Are you ready to invest in yourself, reclaim your time and minimize stress? Click here

 

To learn more about DocWorking, visit us here!

 

Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Please email Amanda, our producer at Amanda@docworking.com to apply.

 

And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!

 

We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunesSpotifyiHeart RadioGoogle, Pandora, PlayerFMListenNotesAmazonYouTubePodbean

 

Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.

 

Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran

30: Interview with Doctor-Author Ilene Wong aka I.W. Gregorio

30: Interview with Doctor-Author Ilene Wong aka I.W. Gregorio

April 21, 2021

“You know, I would yell at a diabetic patient who, for instance, was not taking their insulin. But why would I not grant myself that same grace?” -Dr Ilene Wong

 

In today’s episode Jen sits down with Dr. Ilene Wong, also known as author I.W. Gregorio. Dr. Wong is a practicing urologist and the author of two young adult novels, None of the Above and This is My Brain in Love. Tune in to hear how she balances medicine and writing novels with her family life, and how you can get started on your own path toward being a published author.

 

Dr. Ilene Wong M.D. F.A.C.S. received her undergraduate degree from University of Pennsylvania, and medical school degree from Yale University School of Medicine. She completed her urology residency at Stanford. You can currently find her at Midlantic Urology.

 

You can also find Dr. Wong's blog here and on Twitter/Tumblr/Instagram: @iwgregorio. You can find an article on Dr. Wong and one of her favorite Independent bookstores here. Organization Dr. Wong mentions in the podcast episode: InterACT and Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators

 

Excerpts from the show:

 

“I grew up in a pretty isolated area. I was a voracious reader of books. I always like to say that books were my best friends growing up and really shaped who I was and what I value. You know, ever since that first short story that we wrote in second grade that was mimeographed and put in a little collection I always wanted to be a writer. So I was always involved in writing clubs and reading. Obviously reading a lot and writing thinly veiled pastiches of my favorite stories. But it was around high school where I was kind of like, all I'm writing is just a copy of what I've read. And so I need more life experience to write, and that's when I sort of realized that. I was good in math and science and medicine is a really great field to learn and to meet people and to hear stories. So in college, I double majored in English and biochemistry, which is a relatively rare combination, but it worked for me because I was able to dig deep and take a lot of writing classes but I was also able to fill the credits to become pre-med and I really loved the idea at that point of synthesizing medicine.” -Dr. Ilene Wong

 

"I took a medicine and literature course early on and read the works of Sherwin Nuland and Richard Selzer, and people don't know that Chekhov, for instance, was a physician. So was William Carlos Williams, the poet. So there's a long history of physicians also being humanitarians and writers and that's how I approached it. I approached it as being given the privilege of telling people stories not only based on my clinical experiences but also sort of based as like, from the doctors unique perspective within humanity. I kept on after undergrad. I studied a little more creative writing and then I went to medical school and I continued writing throughout. I've written op-eds about topics like AIDS in Africa, or I've done features on some of my more amazing patients. I did one in the San Francisco Chronicle when I was a resident about a quadruple amputee that I met during my cardiac surgery rotation. He was also a rock bassist. I think that I've never really seen the two as different. And then my very first young adult novel None of the Above was directly inspired by a patient experience that I had that really changed me and that was sort of that index patient that makes you rethink your relationship to medicine and to the world, and that also inspired me to sort of almost become an activist when it comes to supporting the lives of intersex children who are born neither male nor female but something in between and are often subjected to interventions and surgeries they never consented to.” -Dr. Ilene Wong

 

"I think that my writing has given me the permission to slow down a bit. I think that in my early years I was really focused on productivity. I felt this need to just do as much as I could and I think that in the past few years I've given myself the permission to ask more. Lliterally just ask patients, ‘How are you doing?’ Especially because This is My Brain in Love is more about mental health and during a pandemic it's really important to assess how people’s lives are outside of this tiny sliver of time that you see them in your clinic. Because if a person’s family life or social life is in a position where they can't care for themselves that's going to really affect how you treat them.” -Dr. Ilene Wong

 

Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

Get One-on-One Coaching with Master-Certified Coach Jill Farmer

 

DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians. Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable.

Our Coaches Will Show You How!

 

We have exciting news! Our live course, STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back is coming soon! Life is too short to be stretched so thin. Do you want more time to focus on what matters most to you? Our power packed plan fits easily into your busy day! Coaches Gabriella and Jill have taken all their best strategies from coaching hundreds of physicians over multiple years and folded them into one efficient course. You can easily practice these bite-sized strategies on your timeline: anytime, anywhere. Are you ready to invest in yourself, reclaim your time and minimize stress? Click here

 

To learn more about DocWorking, visit us here!

Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Please email Amanda, our producer at Amanda@docworking.com to apply.

And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!

We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunesSpotifyiHeart RadioGooglePlayerFMListenNotesAmazonYouTubePodbean

 

Some links in our blogs and show notes are affiliate links, and purchases made via those links may result in small payments to DW. These help toward our production costs. Thank you for supporting DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast!

Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.

 

Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran

29: Building Businesses Outside of Your Day Job: Part 1 of 2 With Dr. Saira Ahmed

29: Building Businesses Outside of Your Day Job: Part 1 of 2 With Dr. Saira Ahmed

April 19, 2021

“Especially as physicians we get caught up in that analysis paralysis. We’re waiting for things to be just perfect and they usually never are. And so, you just have to kinda get started.” -Dr. Saira Ahmed

 

In today’s episode, Jen sits down with Dr. Saira Ahmed to discuss entrepreneurship and building businesses alongside a career as a physician. Aside from working full time in Utilization Review in cases related to her sleep medicine specialty while simultaneously holding down a managerial role running a busy practice and seeing patients in that practice one day per week, Dr. Ahmed also has a real estate business, a school that trains people to become phlebotomists, an e-commerce business selling scrubs and other medical accessories, and she and her husband run a non-profit organization through which they do multiple community service projects throughout the year. Wow. Tune in to hear how she got started and how she keeps her life balanced, and learn tips for starting and succeeding at your own side hustle today.

 

Dr. Ahmed went to New York Institute of Technology for her undergraduate degree. Attended Ross University School of Medicine for Medical School and did her residency at Seton Hall University Internal Medicine Residency Program. Her current affiliations are Jefferson Health System and Salem Memorial Medical Center. You can find her on instagram.

 

 

Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

Get One-on-One Coaching with Master-Certified Coach Jill Farmer

 

Excerpts from the show:

 

“I basically knew from the beginning I was going to be a doctor. My grandfather was a doctor and none of his kids became doctors. My father was a pharmacist. He was supposed to be a doctor and he actually dropped out of medical school so when I was born I think my grandfather was like, ‘You're going to fulfill my dreams.’ And…I kind of grew up with that in my mind. I couldn't really imagine doing anything else anyway. It was something I wanted also. So I guess ever since growing up I just knew I was going to be a doctor.” -Dr. Saira Ahmed

“I did not ever think that I was going to be an entrepreneur or go into business at all. Pretty much my whole professional career has been focused on becoming a physician and getting into residency, getting through residency and fellowship. I started thinking about entrepreneurship when I was an attending, in my first year of being an attending. My first job after fellowship, I worked as a hospitalist and it was really awesome because there's a huge learning curve when you go from being a fellow to becoming an attending. But after a year of doing that I felt like the learning curve had really plateaued and I felt I had pretty much learned everything there was to learn in that position. I was starting to think, ‘Ok, I've got one year in as an attending. What is my future plan now and what do I want to do?’ So I think that's when the whole entrepreneurship thing kind of started in my mind, because I knew I wanted to do something on my own. Whether that was having a practice or, I actually had a plan to open a wellness, not really a spa, but a wellness place. Like a retreat, and I actually still have those notes. It's like from ten years ago. I had a binder that I used to jot down notes and ideas and things that I would want in my retreat. But luckily, what happened is the guy I was seeing at the time proposed and we got married and then that was history and luckily he turned out wanting a lot of the same things I wanted so we kind of started our entrepreneurial journey together.” -Dr. Saira Ahmed

“I joined his practice and I worked in his practice for probably around five years and then eventually I decided I'd rather just take more of a management role. I still see patients in the practice one day a week just to keep up my clinical skills because it's something I don't want to lose. But clinically I am not the biggest provider there anymore. I'm more of management now. And I got my own job doing utilization review, which I felt was more related to sleep medicine which is my specialty. So I thought it was a win-win for me and it also gave me the opportunity to focus on other things like our other projects that we have going on.” -Dr. Saira Ahmed

 

 “So you're working full-time in your utilization review?” -Dr. Jen Barna

 

“Yes.” -Dr. Saira Ahmed

 

Okay, so you're doing that and in addition to the utilization review full-time work,  you have a real estate business is that correct?” -Dr. Jen Barna

 

“Yes.” -Dr. Saira Ahmed

 

“And you have a business training people to become phlebotomists?” -Dr. Jen Barna

 

“Yes we have a little school that we started a few years ago.” -Dr. Saira Ahmed

 

“Okay, and then you have an e-commerce clothing store that sells scrubs right?” -Dr. Jen Barna

 

“Yes.” -Dr. Saira Ahmed

 

“This is really interesting because you've got such diversity in your business portfolio as well. You also have a not-for-profit organization too, right?”  -Dr. Jen Barna

 

“Yes.” -Dr. Saira Ahmed

 

“So tell me, which of these did you start first?” -Dr. Jen Barna

 

“The nonprofit came first. So what happened after I got married, I moved to South Jersey where my husband was already settled. And one year into our marriage, you know, we were both moderate Muslim. We do practice and you know we like to go to mosque on Fridays and we do practice Ramadan. And with our busy schedule and our schedule only getting busier and busier and the closest mosque was about 25 to 30 minutes away and we were just like there's got to be an easier way for us to continue to practice our religion and still do everything else that we do. So we decided to open a non-profit and open an Islamic center in our town. So we spoke with the mayor. We said ‘listen we have a small community here you know we've got professionals and we've got business owners and it would just be so convenient if we can have a place to pray here.’ At the same time, we felt with everything going on in the news and stuff and how sometimes we are portrayed, I don't know we felt the need to show a positive outlook on Islam. You know, we are doctors, we are taxpayers, we are good citizens and we wanted to do some education and at the same time we wanted to do community service. So we do multiple projects throughout the year. During Christmas we gave out a hundred hot meals to community members and they don't have to be part of our mosque and they don't have to be Muslim or anything, we just want to give back to the local community. So we thought the best way to do that is by starting our own nonprofit. We spoke to the mayor at the time saying this is what we want to do and she was supportive, so we did.” -Dr. Saira Ahmed 

 

DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians.

Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable.

Our Coaches Will Show You How!

 

 

We have exciting news! Our live course, STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back is coming soon! Life is too short to be stretched so thin. Do you want more time to focus on what matters most to you? Our power packed plan fits easily into your busy day! Coaches Gabriella and Jill have taken all their best strategies from coaching hundreds of physicians over multiple years and folded them into one efficient course. You can easily practice these bite-sized strategies on your timeline: anytime, anywhere. Are you ready to invest in yourself, reclaim your time and minimize stress? Click here!

 

To learn more about DocWorking, visit us here!

 

Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Please email Amanda, our producer at Amanda@docworking.com to apply.

 

And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!

 

We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunesSpotifyiHeart RadioGooglePlayerFMListenNotesAmazonYouTubePodbean

 

Some links in our blogs and show notes are affiliate links, and purchases made via those links may result in small payments to DW. These help toward our production costs. Thank you for supporting DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast!

 

Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.

 

Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran

 

28: Letting Go of Guilt When Leaving Medicine

28: Letting Go of Guilt When Leaving Medicine

April 16, 2021

“That’s the lesson I’ve learned about self acceptance, that everyone has a function. And maybe it’s even bigger than we think it is. And being able to say ‘Okay, I’m going to find what that is for me...’” -Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

We’ve all felt guilt in our lives over something, maybe small or perhaps big. But some feelings of guilt last longer than others. Such as the guilt over leaving a career that you have spent the majority of your life studying for, training for and working at. Now add helping to heal people and change lives to the mix. What do you do if you are feeling pulled in a different direction? Stay to avoid the guilt of leaving? Or can you learn how to let go of that guilt and move forward in whatever way life is leading you? Yes! You can. And Gabriella is here in this episode to share her story of guilt with leaving her childhood calling and her story of healing.  

Excerpts from the show:

“So when you were talking about guilt in leaving clinical medicine, tell us a little bit more about how that topic came up.” -Gena Jefferson

“I burned out. I really did. I was in primary care medicine, my specialty was internal medicine, and I did that for seven years. But I can say is that really the burnout process for me was started in residency, and it got carried forward and it kind of piled on and piled on and piled on, and just got to the point where I knew I had to make a change if I wanted to live a different kind of life. Now did it have to mean me leaving medicine? For some people it doesn't, but for me it did. Leaving clinical medicine. Really, I got to the point where to save my own life I had to make that decision and so that's what kind of pushed me out of medicine. But I have to say that it wasn't just a push, there was a pull.  And so on the other hand I'm also a musician and composer, and I've been that my entire life almost as long, if not as long, as I've wanted to be a doctor. So you know, there came a point where I was starting to perform more and I was learning about African drumming and I was teaching and, you know, that was pulling me out. I really wanted to pursue that more full-time and I figured if not now, when? So there were these two kind of competing reasons, well not competing, I guess they complement each other. Because it was time to leave.” -Gabriella Dennery MD

 

“It took about ten years to make the decision to leave. It's not something that ever happened overnight. And for various reasons, there was a lot of back-and-forth, and one of them was feeling guilty. I grew up with that obligation and that responsibility to other people and so that was the kind of culture of the household, you know. You did for others before you did for yourself. That's how I grew up. And for me, as I said, medicine equated to helping people, and that's the way I saw it and that’s how I grew up around it.  So to leave it was kind of breaking the equation. At the same time, I knew that I was absolutely exhausted. I was exhausted by the procedural stuff, by the administrative stuff which was not what I thought doctoring was about. I was also exhausted by this whole idea and perhaps because of my pick of specialties. I picked internal medicine because I enjoyed working with adults and I still do. At the same time back in the day, it was called chronic illness management. For me, it's like, ‘well that's not why I became a doctor.’ I thought I was helping people get better. You know chronically managing illness, it didn't make sense to me, like philosophically it didn't make sense to me. Eventually they changed the lingo to ‘Healthcare Maintenance’ but basically it's the same thing. So there were those kind of pushes. The administrative exhaustion. It's like, ‘But this is not what I signed up for when I said I wanted to be a doctor! It's not what I signed up for!’ Then there was this whole idea of maintaining illness and it just didn't make sense to me. I couldn't reconcile that logically or emotionally in any way, shape or form. So that waged war on my spirit over years. And year after year after year of health maintenance for chronically ill patients…I’d had my fill.”  -Gabriella Dennery MD

 

“It was funny I was going back home for a visit and it was my father's second wife, you know, my parents were divorced when I was a teenager. She said, “Something is different about Gabriella.” Then she came up to me and she said, “Something is different about you.” and I said, ‘Really? What? What is it?’ She said I looked happy, and I said ‘Oh boy,’ and then she went to my dad and said “Gabriella looks happy! Something’s different about her,” and I heard her say that. So I eventually did let them know. But I said it in a very particular way. I went to my dad first and I told him. I said, “You know, what I really want from you now are words of support and encouragement because I have enough worry of my own, and enough fears of my own, and I don't need yours too. So please, if you can't say anything good then please keep it to yourself or talk to my siblings about it but not to me.” I made the same request of my mother, and I was very respectful and very polite but I made my boundary very clear because I knew my mom was a worry wart and I know dad didn't say much but I know he worried too. I said, “I'm a 40-year-old woman, I'm grown and I will be fine. In the meantime, all I want from you are words of encouragement. I just need your encouragement.” And you know what happened? That's the beauty about this, and making it clear to them as to what I wanted from them, not just what I didn't want but what I wanted from them, that they actually respected it and they did it.”  -Gabriella Dennery MD 

 

DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians.

Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable.

Our Coaches Will Show You How!

 

We have exciting news! Our live course, STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back is coming soon! Life is too short to be stretched so thin. Do you want more time to focus on what matters most to you? Our power packed plan fits easily into your busy day! Coaches Gabriella and Jill have taken all their best strategies from coaching hundreds of physicians over multiple years and folded them into one efficient course. You can easily practice these bite-sized strategies on your timeline: anytime, anywhere. Are you ready to invest in yourself, reclaim your time and minimize stress? Click here

 

To learn more about DocWorking, visit us here!

 

Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Please email Amanda, our producer at Amanda@docworking.com to apply.

 

And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!

 

We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunesSpotifyiHeart RadioGooglePlayerFMListenNotesAmazonYouTubePodbean

 

Some links in our blogs and show notes are affiliate links, and purchases made via those links may result in small payments to DW. These help toward our production costs. Thank you for supporting DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast!

 

Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.

 

Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran

27: Interview with Dr. Ysaye Barnwell: Singer and Composer From Sweet Honey in the Rock, Author, Actress, Educator

27: Interview with Dr. Ysaye Barnwell: Singer and Composer From Sweet Honey in the Rock, Author, Actress, Educator

April 14, 2021

“You know, I try to figure out:  What is not right here? And some things can’t be fixed. And then, if it can’t be fixed, I have to decide, do I want to stay here and be a part of this or is there a way that I can use my energies in a more positive way?” -Dr. Ysaye Barnwell, Retired Professor at Howard University College of Dentistry, musician, composer, actress, author.

 

Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

Get One-on-One Coaching with Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer

 

 In this episode, Coach Gabriella Dennery MD sits down with renowned artist and professor Dr. Ysaye Barnwell. Dr. Barnwell has enjoyed a successful career as a professor of speech pathology at Howard University College of Dentistry, and simultaneously traveled extensively worldwide as a member of the African American a cappella band, Sweet Honey In the Rock (1979-2013). In addition to composing many of Sweet Honey In the Rock’s songs, Dr. Barnwell has been commissioned to create music for dance, choral, film, and stage productions.  Dr. Barnwell's acting credits include a principal role on a television series called A Man Called Hawk and a role in the 1998 film Beloved. Barnwell released a solo recording of stories and song, Um Humm, in 2000. She has also written a children's book with CD, No Mirrors in My Nana's House.  A second children's book and CD set was released in March 2008: We Are One

 

Dr. Barnwell earned her bachelor's and master's degrees in speech pathology from State University of New York at Geneseo, and a PhD in speech pathology from the University of Pittsburgh. She earned a Master of Science in Public Health from Howard University. Wikipedia

She is an incredible woman with a wealth of knowledge to share.

Excerpts from the show (in no specific order):

Coach Dr. Gabriella: “What led you to a doctorate in speech pathology and a professorship at Howard University?”

Dr. Ysaye: “When I was about twelve years old, I went to my first play on Broadway and it was about Helen Keller. I never forgot how I was consumed by that. The things that drive me now and have driven me all my life were:

  •  How do you work with people who have differences where society would demand that they somehow or other deal with it?
  • Or, my own sadness of being enveloped in music all the time, and knowing that there are people who will never hear it. Is there a way to compensate for that? Is there a way to compensate for the skills that they don't develop the way in which (so-called) “normal” people would develop them?

So sign language was so fascinating to me, and lip reading was so fascinating to me. I wanted to share all of the auditory things that I had grown up with all my life with people who somehow don't have access to that. When I chose my major in college, I thought I wanted to go into deaf education, but then I realized that there were all of these other communicative problems that people have. I don't like doing one thing, (because) it's just going to help one person. It could help everybody, so I went into speech path and I learned about all kinds of facial abnormalities. It's just been my life. I've had this kind of span of things that I've been interested in, and I've kind of poked my head in every now and then to see what I can learn, what I could offer,  etc. So I've had a really enjoyable life.” 

 

“Then on top of all that to be in Sweet Honey in the Rock and then, you know, say to myself, ‘Okay so what else can I bring to this group? Excuse me, there are people who can't hear you. Can we add an interpreter here? Sure.’ So I became the interpreter and a singer. Then I realized, wait a minute, this is not working for me because there are five voices in this ensemble and we are adding a sixth (the interpreter). I cannot do two voices at the same time. If I was the lead on every song that would be different, but I'm not, and that's cool and I like what I do in the background. But I can't sign what the lead is singing when I'm doing a background thing. So that was the beginning of Sweet Honey in the Rock using a sign language interpreter as an integral part of the group.” 

 

Coach Dr. Gabriella: “Was there any point where you thought maybe you shouldn’t do that (be a professor while a singer, composer and traveling with a band), but you should just settle down and do what everybody else does? Was that ever a question for you?” 

 

Dr. Ysaye: “No, that was never a question. Everything seemed to fit together for me, which is really weird but true. Even in terms of being a songwriter, because you know I did a post-doc in public health and I was in Sweet Honey in the Rock at the time and that's when I wrote “More Than a Paycheck” because we had been invited to sing with steel workers and different conventions and things like that and for me all of that began to come together. Well, so how can I sing to this group and not share what I've just learned with other folks who don't realize what the commonalities are? But if you write a song like “More Than a Paycheck”, you know, where everything I'm doing is more than the paycheck I'm getting and I am collecting things that are hazardous to myself or dangerous to myself and others or things that kind of make relationships a little bit difficult. I mean we all do that and so “More Than a Paycheck” for me is about exploring and discovering what's positive and negative about what I'm exploring. Can I make a change in it or should I just leave it alone? And those are really my questions. You know, I get involved in things and I see what it is. If I'm going to leave, I want to leave positively or else I have to figure out ways to make it work not only for me personally but for the whole community that it's part of.” 

 

Correction: During the recording, it was mentioned that Dr. Barnwell holds a PhD in Speech Therapy. She holds a PhD in Speech Pathology. 

 

DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians.

Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable.

Our Coaches Will Show You How!

 

We have exciting news! Our live course, STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back is coming soon! Life is too short to be stretched so thin. Do you want more time to focus on what matters most to you? Our power packed plan fits easily into your busy day! Coaches Gabriella and Jill have taken all their best strategies from coaching hundreds of physicians over multiple years and folded them into one efficient course. You can easily practice these bite-sized strategies on your timeline: anytime, anywhere. Are you ready to invest in yourself, reclaim your time and minimize stress? Click here!

 

To learn more about DocWorking, visit us here!

 

Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Please email Amanda, our producer at Amanda@docworking.com to apply.

 

And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!

 

We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunes, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Google, PlayerFM, ListenNotes, Amazon, YouTube, Podbean

 

Some links in our blogs and show notes are affiliate links, and purchases made via those links may result in small payments to DW. These help toward our production costs. Thank you for supporting DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast!

 

Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.

 

Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran

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