DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast

53: Parenting Beyond Happiness: Building Resilience to Embrace the Human Experience with Parenting Coach Margaret Webb

“…What I want is to help my kids be as fully human as they can, and to be open to the full breadth of the human experience. That includes happiness and it includes a whole bunch of other things in between, and the more capable I can let my kid be themselves and experience and understand the resilience of moving through the breath of that human experience, that's a lot more important than me trying to keep them happy all the time.’ I was like, ‘Dang that was good!’” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer

In today’s episode, Jill talks with Parenting Coach Margaret Webb. “Whether you are parenting a child that you didn't expect when you were expecting or you're just finding parenting in general really challenging especially with the pressurized life of a physician, today we have some ideas. Margaret is going to share a specific process that she's found to be wildly successful both in her own life as a parent and as a parenting coach and that seems to work really well with physicians.” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer

Excerpts from the show:

 

“So Margaret, give us just a thumbnail sketch for those of us who don't know your story about your life and what you know about physicians when it comes to parenting the child that they didn't expect.” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer

“Yes, I'm excited to be here. I am married to a neurosurgeon and we have been married for 25 years. We were married at 23, so I've been through the whole medical school, residency, fellowship, practice starting process with him. While we were doing that, I was teaching as an elementary school teacher and then became the mother of our now almost 18-year-old son who is autistic and is like Jill said, ‘Our best teacher ever,’ and really challenges us to look at things differently, which at first was really frustrating and kind of challenging, but it's actually been one of the best gifts ever. It's taught us so much about ourselves and how we approach things. I'm really excited to share the process that we use all of the time that helps us every single day.” -Margaret Webb

 

“So walk us through it a little bit if you would.” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer

 

“Yes, so it’s TIANT. Kind of like giant but with a T... So the letters stand for T for Tension, I for Intention, A for Attention and then the NT stands for No Tension. However, I like to clarify that with it (sometimes) being Less Tension. When I first learned about the importance of setting intentions I thought, ‘Ok, this is great. Setting an intention is wonderful. So I'm just going to start with setting intentions for how I want parenting to be or how I want the day to go or how I want this trip to be.’ Then I realized that there's a step before that. Because usually in life, at least in my life, there's usually something that causes tension that leads me to want to set an intention. So that's why the T is very important. When my husband and I would talk about this he's like, ‘Yes, people come to me and they've got tension in their life. They’ve got something that's wrong. Like they're not feeling well, they've got pain, they've got symptoms and so that is what is causing them tension. Then we figure out what is the intention. They want to not have pain, they want to feel better. Then the attention is what are all the different approaches that can help us to address this. Then at some point there are things that we can't control, which is the no tension or less tension.’ When I apply that in parenting it's the same thing. It's realizing, ‘Ok, this particular situation is causing me tension.’ It might be, ‘Oh my child is having a tantrum or a meltdown,’ or, ‘They are having certain behaviors or there's problems at school.’ So that causes tension. Then to take a pause and think about what is our intention? What do we want? Why do we want this? And I find this so fascinating because oftentimes people will recommend certain therapies or certain activities and they’ll recommend them to their friends. They'll say, ‘Oh you need to do this. You need to go see this person or you need to try this therapy. You need to do this particular activity, sign them up.’ And parents are like, ‘Okay.’ It's kind of like they end up playing a game of whack-a-mole where it’s, ‘Ok we’ll just do this, do that.’ But if you press pause and think, what is the intention behind why we want to do this, why we want to try this, what is it going to give us? Then that helps to bring clarity whether or not that actually feels good. Whether it fits in the family plan, whether it's in alignment with what you're wanting. If so, then awesome. Then you go to the next step which is the attention. Ok, well then, what does this look like and what questions need to be asked? What information, especially if you have a child who has special needs or learns differently or just has information that you know could help those who are working with your child, bringing that to the conversation to kind of get the big picture of what is the attention I can give to this? That's so empowering before you even get into something. Now if you check in with your intention and it's not something that you feel ok with, then the attention shifts to, ‘Ok, that's good information. It's not a good fit for us right now.’ That's another thing, sometimes people don't know what to say when other people are giving recommendations. So having something like, ‘Well, that's very interesting and I'm so excited that that worked for you,’ or that you love that, but ‘That's not a good fit for us, for our family, right now and I’ll just tuck it away.’ Having things like that can be really helpful just to help you feel more comfortable in challenging conversations like that. And then the No Tension (or the less tension) is releasing the need for things to go in a specific way because we're not in control. We can't control everything and if we feel like we can control things then that brings a kind of needy, graspy energy to the situation which doesn't leave room for learning and growth. It’s, ‘It has to go this way and it has to go right the first time,’ which, as a physician you know that you're not in control of everything and of how things go. Sometimes things work great and sometimes they don't work great and you have to go back to the beginning of the process of ‘Ok, now here's the tension and what do we do, and how do we proceed from that?’” -Margaret Webb

“I love the last part. TIANT is Tension, Intention, Attention. (Tension) That's the sign post. The intention is how I want to feel and who do I want to be in this process, not just letting yourself get drug by it. Attention is the good old fashioned steps that you're taking. Then the No Tension (less tension), I think that’s something that can be so helpful for physicians, too. Because I know in working with my physician clients, that like a lot of humans and particularly humans who are a little bit prone to perfectionism, there can be a lot of attachment to the outcome. Another thing that is very common in physicians is curiosity, a love of learning. So if you can set aside a bit of the perfectionism and the white knuckling, gripping of the outcome in this situation, whether it's a challenge with a child, whether it's a tough conversation you're having with your vision head, this process works for that as well. Getting curious and being open, as you said, for some growth or possibility after you've taken the action is something that also comes naturally to physicians and it's going to be better serving you than that tightness or attachment to the outcome. Is that how you see it too or am I seeing it in the same way the process was intended?” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer

“Absolutely. Yeah, I always look at it like before I would play with the process, it was like a horse with the blinders on. Only a very limited view of what was possible. With this process, it's like the blinders are off and I can be curious and I can be open to brainstorming and to looking at things happening in different ways. In ways that might require some mental wiggling and shifting because it might be a little uncomfortable to venture into different ways of being. But the more I do it, then the easier it becomes and I see I don't take things as personally. Because it's like, ‘Oh, ok, all right let's try this. How about this?’ You know, it just opens things up.” -Margaret Webb

“I know a lot of my clients in academic medicine, when we can reframe those situations like, ‘Wait. Ok, yeah.’ Sometimes results of research that are different than the hypothesis can have even more powerful findings than what it was when things lined up with the hypothesis. I think that taking some curiosity, some willingness to be an experimenter in this process called life, and in this process called parenting, even if you're on your second, third, fourth, fifth kid, each kid provides its own laboratory for learning new things, as I can attest to as the parent of more than one. I know your husband, the neurosurgeon, has said that he thinks this process works particularly well for physicians because they get it, because it's kind of similar to the work they do. Why do you think that is?” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer

“Well because when we were talking about it, he's like, ‘This is what we do.’ Patients come to us and this is what we do. We listen to their stories and the listening of the stories then reveals often where the tension lies. Listening to the story then can also help with what they're actually wanting, which then helps him to be able to decide. But having that process also he’s like, ‘It helps to do something else that is really important in parenting that's part of this is to not get tangled up in the stories. Like you're listening to the stories but not jumping into the stories of your patients. Just like you don't want to jump into the stories of your kids, which really can be very challenging. Because it's like, ‘Oh we want them to be happy, our intention is for them to be happy!’ But sometimes we can't control that. So being able to stay separate from that and being the observer and being curious about what's actually going on here that isn't necessarily on the surface, and I think physicians are brilliant at that. They have the brain patterning and they have the experience of hearing the stories that they can be like, ‘Oh wait. Hold on, ok, this person is saying this, but this is probably what's actually going on.’ I think the more that you can do that as a parent, then you start seeing patterns of, ‘Ok what's actually going on is maybe they're embarrassed.’ So this kind of bizarre behavior or their little snarky comments or whatever different things show up on the surface, the behavior looks one way but if you can tap into that curiosity and seeing what’s actually underneath this embarrassment. I mean there's so many different things. A lot of times with kids who have learning differences or who have a diagnosis of a variety of things, it can be emotional regulation, sensory overload, chronological age is different from the developmental age that they're behaving at in that moment, which can be really tricky because they can shift within seconds. So navigating that can be a challenge. Power struggles, needing to close loops, so those are some things. But you have to have kind of a checklist of, ‘Oh yeah. Ok, these are the typical underlying causes, but when they show up they look like this.’ So that's the story but what's the understory? I think physicians are really good at that.” -Margaret Webb

“ I love that. I think you bring up a really good point. We can get really attached as parents whether our kids have challenges. I mean, every kid has challenges. But as parents we get really attached sometimes to needing our kids to, ‘Be happy.’ Which really means, ‘I want my kid to kind of be perfect so I can feel good about myself as a parent and I can feel safe and know I'm doing a good job.’ I got some really good advice from a wise person when my kids were in those younger years of transitioning into early elementary. I was like, ‘I’m trying to do all I can to make sure that they're happy and well-adjusted.’ She said, ‘You know, I really think if I could say something to my young parent self (this was somebody who was older than me by a few decades), I would say what I want is to help my kids be as fully human as they can, and to be open to the full breadth of the human experience. That includes happiness, and it includes a whole bunch of other things in between, and the more capable I can let my kid be themselves and experience and understand the resilience of moving through the breath of that human experience, that's a lot more important than me trying to keep them happy all the time.’ I was like, ‘Dang that was good!’

Margaret Webb is a parenting coach who specializes in supporting parents with children who are on their own developmental timeline or who simply march to the beat of their own drum (ie. Autism, Anxiety, ADHD, ADD, SPD, Apraxic, Dyslexic, Learning Differences, etc.). She and her neurosurgeon husband of 25 years thought that they knew what to expect while they were expecting their now 17 year old son but quickly learned he had other things in store for them. Turned out that the most powerful and helpful lessons for them involved shifting their own expectations and internal rules rather than placing all of the focus on him. 

 

You can find Margaret Webb on her website, MargaretWebbLifeCoach, you can email her at margaretwebblifecoach@gmail.com or you can find her on Facebook and Instagram.

 

Related episode: Episode 49: Parenting the Child You Weren’t Expecting

Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

Get One-on-One Coaching with Master-Certified Coach Jill Farmer

 

DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians.

Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable.

Our Coaches Will Show You How!

 

Our New Virtual Courses ‘STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back’ and ‘A New Era of Leadership’ are Almost Here!  Learn More Now 

 

To learn more about DocWorking, visit us here!

 

Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Please email Amanda, our producer at Amanda@docworking.com to apply.

 

And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!

 

We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunes, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Google, Pandora, PlayerFM, ListenNotes, Amazon, YouTube, Podbean

 

Some links in our blogs and show notes are affiliate links, and purchases made via those links may result in small payments to DW. These help toward our production costs. Thank you for supporting DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast!

 

Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.

 

Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran

52: Is Medical Legal Consulting for You? A Discussion with Dr. Armin Feldman

“One of the things that is so great about doing this work is you have a direct effect on helping injured people, and that's one of the things that makes it so gratifying: Your ability to use your medical knowledge, your background, your training in a way that is non-clinical but is still really helping people.” -Armin Feldman MD

In today’s episode, Dr. Jen Barna talks with Dr. Armin Feldman to find out all about his medical legal consulting business. Dr. Feldman began consulting on medical cases for attorneys thirteen years ago and has never looked back. He has a thriving consulting business and he also has a very thorough course to train physicians who would like to have their own consulting business, full-time or as a side gig. Tune in to hear the ins and outs of the business and see if it’s something that might be for you!

 

Go to MDBizCon.com to check out Dr. Feldman’s business or to get in touch with him.

 

Dr. Feldman practiced psychiatry for over twenty years. For the past thirteen years he has been doing medical consulting in Colorado and he also teaches other physicians all over the country to do this work.  

Excerpts from the show:

 

“I'm joined today by a guest that you'll find very interesting, especially if you're a physician who has ever considered taking on a side job or even starting a business outside of your clinical work but you still want to use your medical training. Why don't we start out by hearing about your specialty and how that led you to start your consulting business?” -Dr. Jen Barna

“So asking me about my specialty is actually kind of an interesting question. I am a trained psychiatrist and psychoanalyst. But when someone asks me about my specialty, what I tell them is, my specialty is forensic medicine. It's what I've been doing for the past 13 years. The kind of forensic medicine I do is something that really wasn't done before I started doing this 13 years ago. So for a long time, maybe for centuries, we've had physicians that act as medical experts in legal cases. What I did about 13 years ago, well even to back up from that, before I started doing this work, my area of specialty in psychiatry wound up being mild traumatic brain injury. I wound up owning outpatient head injury rehabilitation clinics around the country and a treatment program of my own design. I think we did a great job helping head injured individuals get back up on their feet. Well, I was fortunate enough to sell those clinics, and in that work I testified as an expert witness really more times than I want to remember on behalf of my patients who were either being cut off from medical care or offered some pittance of a settlement. So I learned a lot about our legal system, how healthcare is delivered in this corner of medicine, the adversarial nature of the work and so forth. So I was thinking about what I wanted to do next. I thought, well, maybe what I could do is just consult to attorneys on any kind of medical question that came up in a case. That turned out to be a good thing, an unexplored niche, and as they say, the rest is history. And that really has developed now over the years into a new subspecialty of forensic medicine that involves doing the pre-trial, pre-litigation medical consulting to attorneys, but primarily in worker's compensation cases and personal injury cases, although physicians in any specialty can learn how to do this work.” -Armin Feldman MD

“If I'm hearing you correctly, what you're doing is different from being an expert witness. How does it differ from being an expert witness?” -Dr. Jen Barna

“You’re correct about that. In fact, I'm a medical consultant in legal cases and there's a huge difference. In fact, the two totally different things between being a medical expert in legal cases and a medical consultant in legal cases: one is, I consult on any kind of medical question that comes up in a case and the physicians that I’ve trained do this as well. All of our work is pre-trial, pre-litigation. So we are helping attorneys to better negotiate and settle cases. We're helping attorneys to save time and we're helping attorneys to get the appropriate medical care for the clients and help them to negotiate through all the medical issues that come up in their cases. Now one of the things that makes this kind of consulting viable and makes it go is that in the areas of the law in which I consult, personal injury and worker's compensation, probably nine out of every ten cases settle and that's where we come in. So anything that we can do as medical consultants as opposed to medical experts and very specific services that we offer that is going to help that attorney to better negotiate and settle the case for more money with less attorney time and help them with medical issues in the case including helping them to get appropriate care for their clients. That's something that a lot of attorneys are interested in. Now not every attorney thinks it's the next best thing since sliced bread. There certainly has been plenty of demand all over the country for years for these kind of services. Now on that one out of ten case that can’t be negotiated and so the attorney is going to litigate that case, they're going to do depositions and go to trial. In those cases the attorney is going to need medical experts in every area of the injury. But for the purpose of negotiating and settling the case, what the attorney needs are well reasoned, well-thought-out medical opinions, reports and other services that are going to help them to settle that case.” -Armin Feldman MD 

“I’ll give you a quick example. Now of course this never happens to me anymore because attorneys in Colorado know who I am and this falls away for other consultants as well. But when I first started, let's say I was hired by an attorney to answer a question concerning a rotator cuff injury in the case and then they needed me to prepare a report and that report was eventually going to be used in the settlement process. So I deliver that report with my medical opinions. By the way, my reports are always seen by opposing counsel, they are almost always seen by insurance adjusters, they are often seen by judges, treating doctors, IME doctors and others. So they are hardly behind the scenes. So opposing counsel gets that report. What's the first thing they're going to do? Well they're going to look me up. So they might pick up the phone and say to the attorney that hired me, ‘Well why should I pay any attention to this report? Dr. Feldman is not an expert in rotator cuffs.” And what my attorney is going to say to them is, ‘Well look, Dr. Feldman acts as a medical consultant for me in all my cases and I can tell you if we can't get this issue settled in the negotiation based on Dr. Feldman's opinions and how he backs up those opinions with evidence from the medical literature, and you force me to take this case to trial, when I hire my retained orthopedic surgeon, they are going to say exactly what Dr. Feldman said in his report. In fact, they would be relying on the same literature that Dr. Feldman quoted in his report.’” -Armin Feldman MD

 

Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

Get One-on-One Coaching with Master-Certified Coach Jill Farmer

 

DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians.

Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable.

Our Coaches Will Show You How!

 

Our New Virtual Courses ‘STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back’ and ‘A New Era of Leadership’ are Almost Here!  Learn More Now 

 

To learn more about DocWorking, visit us here!

 

Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Please email Amanda, our producer at Amanda@docworking.com to apply.

 

And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!

 

We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunes, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Google, Pandora, PlayerFM, ListenNotes, Amazon, YouTube, Podbean

 

Some links in our blogs and show notes are affiliate links, and purchases made via those links may result in small payments to DW. These help toward our production costs. Thank you for supporting DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast!

 

Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.

 

Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran

51: Deciding Whether to Stay or Go

“The key is to be okay with being uncomfortable. To be okay with asking questions. To understand that it is perfectly natural to be asking questions and to be curious about the answers and to check in with yourself.” -Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

In today’s episode, Coach Gabriella and Coach Jill walk us through deciding to stay or go in our career or current employment. Gabriella knows from her own experience that this can be a difficult situation and Jill also has experience in making a career change. They draw on their coaching expertise and also their experience to guide us through what steps we should take to help us make these decisions, how to make them with the right mindset and what pitfalls we should stay away from.  

 

Excerpts from the show:

 

“Gabriella, I know as a coach you probably have heard from people and I know you had the lived experience of making this decision yourself. What do you think drives people to get to the point where they're trying to decide to leave or stay in their career most often?” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer

“Well that's an excellent question because what is the driver? I think the driver is two things. One, what's kind of pushing you out of a career? In other words, is there a sense of dissatisfaction, perhaps burnout may be one of the reasons. And what's pulling you out? Maybe it's wanting to experience new things. Maybe to develop another skill set, maybe it's going in a different direction. So I think the conversation really starts with clients and with physician friends who are going through this process right now. What matters to you most? I think that's probably the first determination. What are your core values? Can you list three or four? So we will go through some exercises around that, simply because that's probably your starting point. What is most important to you as you make these decisions? Because these decisions are not easy.” -Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

“So how do you decide what's most important to you? That can feel like a really big and sometimes even overwhelming question.” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer

“Yes, there are wonderful inventories that you can do online, there are lists of core values that you can find online. Just search core values and they'll pop up. Then just literally sit down with the printed list and circle your top 10. Then go to your top five from the top ten list. Then trim it down to three. So come up with three to five. It could be something like, ‘I value integrity,’ ‘I value honesty,’ ‘I value benevolence’ or ‘I value ambition’. It could be any number of things, there's no right or wrong, better or worse. It really is what speaks to you. Be honest with it. I would say take one of those inventories and really just sit with it and take care of circling the ones you want. Because I have no doubt with the pandemic a lot has shifted, life considerations have shifted, age shifts a lot. So it's good from time to time to check in with yourself and to have that list of values in front of you. That way you get to remind yourself of what those are. Especially when it comes to tough decisions like a career change, which can be made a lot easier when you have an idea of how to articulate what matters to you most.” -Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

“I agree with that 100%. I would even say once you get down to distilling it to those three to five values that really matter to you most, take another look and make sure they're actually your values. Because what I see happens sometimes in clients is they actually have accidentally integrated somebody else's values or dreams or wishes for them. And when they really look at it for themselves they're like, ‘No.’ Or a season of life has changed and what they valued in their 30s feels different to what they are valuing in a new season of life. So I think it's ok to look at them and just double check against your own kind of gut or what one of my coaching friends calls your hut, your heart and your gut, to see how that feels. I love this idea of really focusing on what matters to you. I work with physicians a lot but I also work in other sectors, financial services and law and other places doing coaching and time and stress management consulting. A lot of times what happens is when people are talking about career change they want to move away from something. ‘I'm sick of my boss.’ That's one of the most common reasons that people make a job change is because of their direct supervisor or leadership, or, ‘I'm tired of XYZ.’ What I think, it's similar advice that you hear from marriage counselors: If the only reason you're leaving something is just to get away from it, there's a good chance you're going to repeat it. So I really like having the idea of those core values as a destination of what you're moving toward as opposed to only thinking exclusively about all the things that are wrong with what you're moving away from. Because I have seen it in physician clients where they end up accidentally repeating the same dang thing over and over again at a new location believing that’s going to fix everything as well.” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer

“Really again, it's the motivation. Even if the situation feels untenable and it's like, ‘I’ve got to make a change because I can't thrive here.’ Then it's still being clear on what you want to create or cultivate for yourself, wherever you move to and whatever it is you do, moving toward that. I think that's a really important emphasis. If you all don't take anything else away from today, it's getting clear on what you want to move toward as opposed to just what you're leaving behind. Another thing that I tell people is: Alot of times when people are feeling some angst or agitation around a shift, that it's ok to sit for a minute and let some clarity come in. Sometimes when people start feeling irritated or agitated they just feel like, ‘I gotta go.’ I had a wise teacher once tell me, it's like if you scoop up a cup full of river water. It's kind of cloudy because there's a lot of sediment and stuff moving, but if you let it sit even for a relatively short period of time, the sediment tends to go to the bottom and you get clear water. I think that's a good metaphor for this, too. Sometimes if you're activated, if you've had a situation that feels frustrating, in the midst of it, often I think it's an ok thing to wait until some of that agitation or irritation has cleared before you make a big decision. It doesn't mean you won't end up making the decision to leave or stay but I think people tend to have more regret about decisions they make when they're all stirred up in an emotionally activated state instead of waiting to sort of process that emotion.” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer

 

Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

Get One-on-One Coaching with Master-Certified Coach Jill Farmer

 

DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians.

 

Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable.

Our Coaches Will Show You How!

 

Our New Virtual Courses ‘STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back’ and ‘A New Era of Leadership’ are Almost Here!  Learn More Now 

 

 

 

To learn more about DocWorking, visit us here!

 

Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Please email Amanda, our producer at Amanda@docworking.com to apply.

 

And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!

 

We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunes, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Google, Pandora, PlayerFM, ListenNotes, Amazon, YouTube, Podbean

 

Some links in our blogs and show notes are affiliate links, and purchases made via those links may result in small payments to DW. These help toward our production costs. Thank you for supporting DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast!

 

Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.

 

Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran

50: Faith & A Physician’s Life With Rev. Dr. Kisha Hartwick

“I practice medicine differently from other people and what I do is good, and I’m good at what I do, and I don’t have to do it like everyone else.” Kisha Hartwick MD

In today’s episode Coach Gabriella Dennery MD talks with Dr. Kisha Hartwick about being a practicing psychiatrist and an ordained minister. Dr. Hartwick believes in taking the whole patient into perspective, physical, mental, emotional and spiritual. Tune in to hear about her integrative approach to medicine and how her beliefs guide her in all areas of her life. 

Dr. Hartwick went to medical school at Emory University School of Medicine. She completed her psychiatry residency at Morehouse School of Medicine. She was chief resident of the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at Morehouse School of Medicine. She completed her ministerial training at Inner Visions Institute for Spiritual Development. She is completing her interprofessional fellowship at the Academy of Integrative Health and Medicine. She is currently an Adjunct Assistant Professor of Psychiatry at Campbell University School of Osteopathic Medicine and works as an Emergency Department Psychiatrist at Cape Fear Valley Hospital.

Excerpts from the show:

 

“So Kisha, why did you choose psychiatry?” -Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

“Oh, that’s an easy one! So when I decided to go into medicine I thought I would do something very general. I thought I would come back to my little tiny small town and be the town doctor and practice family practice. What I found out when I got into medical school is that I was so excited to get to all the clinical rotations once I got through the bookwork part. But when I got into those rotations I was not loving it. I thought, ‘Oh my God, I've just made the biggest mistake of my life.’ I kept having trouble in my rotations because I would be in the room talking with a patient working on whatever they were there to work on for the day and my preceptor always had to knock on the door and pull me out and say, ‘You're taking too long, you've got other patients waiting.’ So that was a problem until I got into psychiatry. Psychiatry was the first place where I could sit and talk with people and not feel like I had to put the whole conversation into eight minutes or less. I felt like I could not only address the issue that they came in for that day but really look at why that's an issue in the first place. So if Mrs. Jones came in because her blood sugar was high, they wanted me to just fix the blood sugar. But nobody was stopping to ask why is the blood sugar high in the first place? What's going on in your life? She wants to talk about how she's worried about her son and stresses at work and all of these things. Psychiatry I found to be the only place that I could spend time with patients to actually address those things.” -Kisha Hartwick MD

“Does being an ordained minister have an impact on your approach with patients?” -Gabriella Dennery MD 

“Oh it absolutely has an impact. Even at the beginning I kind of thought that I would be a practicing psychiatrist who was a closet minister, if that makes sense. Like I think I thought my patients and colleagues might never know that I'm a minister. Not that I would hide it on purpose, but it felt like two separate parts of my life. However, as I moved through the process of being ordained, (I was) recognizing that every part of my life is ministry. So there's two ways that being a minister affects how I show up with patients. Number one, being a minister affects how I show up in my own life. How well I do with taking care of myself, how well I do with maintaining awareness of my connection with spirit, how well I do with keeping myself grounded and centered because the better I can be in those ways the better I can show up for my patients, so that when I'm in the room, just me and the patient and the door closes, I'm not worried about thinking about my issues, my life problems, my things. I'm able to fully focus on what it is that this patient needs from me right now and trusting and knowing that I'm fully equipped to offer whatever that is. Also knowing that part of being fully equipped to offer whatever it is that the patient needs from me right now means that all of what that patient needs isn't just coming from me as a person, as a human, but it's the spirit who's working through me to support this patient and to really make room for healing to happen.” -Kisha Hartwick MD

“So the pandemic, what was that like for you in terms of being a witness (working in the Emergency Department) to all of this?” -Gabriella Dennery MD 

“I feel like we signed up for this. As physicians we signed up for serving. We signed up for taking care of people at their greatest moment of need and as a minister it's like I've double signed up for that. So, honestly it was a hassle donning the PPE and all the layers of masks and shields and taking one set of clothes and changing before I get into the unit and changing again before I get to my car. Keeping a separate pair of shoes and you know the things we kind of had to do to keep ourselves protected was a hassle. However, I felt and still feel very grateful and very humble for the opportunity to serve at that moment. Was it scary? Yes. Was it a hassle? Yes. Was it difficult? Absolutely. You know people are worried about dying. And although as a psychiatrist they weren't coming to see me because of a Covid positive status, I saw some people who had Covid positive status who didn't know until after I talked to them. In fact, I picked up a lot of folks because we would screen people for Covid before we would admit them to the psychiatric unit and they'd be all ready to go to the psychiatric unit and they’d come back with a positive test. They didn't know, we didn't know, and now you're in the hospital for a different reason. It's interesting to see and I saw this happen a few times. The people who came in the hospital because they were suicidal and thought their life wasn't worth living, and I said, ‘I’m going to keep you in the hospital. I'm going to admit you to the psychiatric unit where we can make sure you stay safe and help you get back to a place where you are no longer feeling suicidal.’ The moment that test came back positive for Covid all of a sudden life was important to them. All of a sudden it's a different perspective. So that's kind of what my interface with Covid looked like. I think my biggest area of service was with my teammates. The nurses and techs who spent more time in the room with patients than the rest of us do, they are the people that when the doctor leaves the room the patient will say, ‘Can I ask you a question?’ I think that the biggest toll has really been on them. So I just took it on as my personal project to check on my people, my staff, my nurses. Just check in with them and ask, ‘How are you doing and how are you managing?’ To show them that even though the rest of the world gets to shut up in their homes and close off and don't have to come out, and we do, we still don't have to be victim to this experience. We are called for this and God chose us for this. We still don't have to be victims to this experience. I'll remind the staff members that their presence here is important and these patients need you. What you are bringing and what you provide and what you bring to the table, if you weren't here to provide it they wouldn't be getting all that they need. Honestly, I literally would say this very often, ‘Everybody can't do this. What we're doing right here today on this shift and this hospital and this emergency department, everybody can't do this. But you guys can do this. You guys are doing this and you guys are great at doing this.’ So I think it's the difference between having the perspective of, ‘Oh God, here we are and it's so unfair that we have to be here.’ No. It's not unfair. It's what you were put here for.” -Kisha Hartwick MD

We have exciting news! Our live course, STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back is coming soon! Life is too short to be stretched so thin. Do you want more time to focus on what matters most to you? Our power packed plan fits easily into your busy day! Coaches Gabriella and Jill have taken all their best strategies from coaching hundreds of physicians over multiple years and folded them into one efficient course. You can easily practice these bite-sized strategies on your timeline: anytime, anywhere. Are you ready to invest in yourself, reclaim your time and minimize stress? Click here! 

 

 

Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

Get One-on-One Coaching with Master-Certified Coach Jill Farmer

 

DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians.

Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable.

Our Coaches Will Show You How!

 

Our New Virtual Courses ‘STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back’ and ‘A New Era of Leadership’ are Almost Here!  Learn More Now 

 

 

 

To learn more about DocWorking, visit us here!

 

Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Please email Amanda, our producer at Amanda@docworking.com to apply.

 

And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!

 

We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunes, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Google, Pandora, PlayerFM, ListenNotes, Amazon, YouTube, Podbean

 

Some links in our blogs and show notes are affiliate links, and purchases made via those links may result in small payments to DW. These help toward our production costs. Thank you for supporting DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast!

 

Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.

 

Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran

49: Parenting the Child You Weren’t Expecting with Margaret Webb

“He has been the best teacher because it’s just a matter of noticing and playing around with, what is the feedback that I'm getting from this other human being? And it’s just been absolutely amazing.” -Margaret Webb

In today’s episode, Coach Jill Farmer sits down with Margaret Webb. Margaret is a Life Coach who specializes in coaching parents on ‘Parenting the child they didn’t expect while they were expecting.’ Margaret and her neurosurgeon husband of 25 years have their own story of the unexpected. Tune in to hear this story and find out what led Margaret down the path of Coaching and how she has been helping others to find the freedom in shifting expectations.  

Margaret Webb is a parenting coach who specializes in supporting parents with children who are on their own developmental timeline or who simply march to the beat of their own drum. (ie. Autism, Anxiety, ADHD, ADD, SPD, Apraxic, Dyslexic, Learning Differences, etc.) She and her neurosurgeon husband of 25 years thought that they knew what to expect while they were expecting their now 17 year old son but quickly learned he had other things in store for them. Turned out that the most powerful and helpful lessons for them involved shifting their own expectations and internal rules rather than placing all of the focus on him. 

You can find Margaret Webb on her website, MargaretWebbLifeCoach, you can email her at margaretwebblifecoach@gmail.com or you can find her on Facebook and Instagram.

Excerpts from the show:

 

“So let's talk a little bit about your specific journey. You were working full-time as a busy teacher helping to support your husband. He was on the very long and arduous path of medical training to become a neurosurgeon. So then you guys decided it's getting to be time where you might want to become parents yourselves. Pick up the story there, if you would.” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer

“Yeah. We got married when we were 23. So we're about to celebrate our 25th wedding anniversary. But he was in his research year of his residency and we thought, ‘Ok, this will be an ideal time, because he'll be home more and we're almost at the end stretch of his neurosurgery residency.’ So we decided, ‘Ok, we're almost 30, this will be a great time to get pregnant.’ So we did and from there things got really interesting because things did not go as we expected. We got pregnant and then spent a year in Auckland, New Zealand ...before his chief residency year. He actually had to go to Auckland before I gave birth. I had the choice to either leave my teaching job when I was 30 weeks pregnant so that I could go with him and be over there in time to give birth or I could stay back in the states. So I chose to stay in the states to finish out my teaching year and then have our son at the hospital with the doctors that I knew. So he was not there when I gave birth, which was a very interesting thing because we ended up needing to have an emergency C-section and me not having medical knowledge didn't realize, ‘Like oh, maybe we should just demand to have this sooner than later.’ It ended up that our son had the cord wrapped around his neck, so he was losing oxygen and all sorts of things happened as a result of that. So he was born and things progressed. We went to New Zealand and everything was hunky-dory. Then towards the end of our one year there, it started to become apparent around his one year birthday that things weren't going as planned. He wasn't babbling, he wasn't responding to his name, he wasn't waving bye-bye and so that kind of set up some red flags for us. After the year was up we came back to the states. Then he did his chief residency year and I went back to teaching. Andrew went to daycare and things got even more challenging. He did not want to sit at the table, he didn't want to do certain things that the other kids his chronological age were able to do. So that was the start of our journey.’ -Margaret Webb

“So at that point, obviously, chief residency is not a laid-back year and you're trying to juggle parenting and your own career as a teacher. And feeling like, I know from previous conversations we've had, ‘I am a teacher. I should be able to handle this. We've got this. We've got a teacher and a brain surgeon, we can do this with this kid.’ So what was your behavior like at that time and what were you trying to achieve during that early time of knowing that maybe Andrew was on a different path from at least the other kids in daycare at that point?” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer 

“So we definitely had been high-fiving each other beforehand thinking, ‘All right, we got this thing in the bag. We are going to be the best parents possible for this child based on our experience.’ At that time I went into full-blown warrior mode where I was just like, ‘Ok I've got to fix it. I've got to take care of everything.’ We had visited a pediatrician who happened to be one of the parents of the kids that I was teaching and she started asking questions and I got very defensive around anything regarding differences showing up with my child because you know it was like, ‘Oh my gosh, this is my baby, why are you saying this about my child? Like he's just a late talker, he's just like Einstein. You know, he's brilliant, clearly.’ So there was a lot of defensive warrior energy where I just really wasn't willing to accept that there might be something different. Now I did accept help in the form of a speech pathologist and play therapist who came to our house. We did evaluations, we did the hearing screening, we did all sorts of stuff but at that point in time because he was doing his chief residency year, I felt like I needed to take on everything and make sure that everything was done so that when he came home he got to be ‘park man’. You know, he'd come in and our son would grab him by the hand and take him down to the neighborhood park and they would goof around and swing. So it was very important for me to make sure that they had their relationship and that they maintained that. Looking back now, I realize that it was at the expense of not really bringing him in and allowing his input and support. Like we would go and do MRIs and I would do it by myself. They always ended up being a horrible horrible experience. You know, looking back, I'm like, ‘Ok, he would've been the perfect person to bring. Which I eventually did because I'm like, ‘He would know the language, he would know how to communicate certain things.’ But at that point it was like, ‘Ok I just need to do this all myself,’ which was not good.” -Margaret Webb

“So the final question in this part of the conversation, update us now on how hilarious and funny 17 year old Andrew is doing today.” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer

“Yes, he is doing absolutely amazing. He's almost 18, which just blows my mind and he's super excited to become an adult. He thinks something magical is going to happen at 18 to make him suddenly independent, which cracks me up. But he's just kind of like Buddy the Elf. He's just joy and he loves being with other people and doing different things. He went to a social hour the other night with my mother-in-law and there was somebody in the parking lot. As I opened the door, she came over and she said, ‘I just have to say, ‘Do you realize what a joy your child is?’ He's just unapologetic of who he is and will compliment anybody. You know like, ‘Wow you look so beautiful’ or ‘I love your shirt.’ He doesn't have an ego and he doesn't have a social self filter which makes it so fun to be around. Now granted, he's also a teenager for the most part he is who he is and he continues to encourage me to be me unapologetically. I think these kids have a lot to teach us.” -Margaret Webb

 

Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

Get One-on-One Coaching with Master-Certified Coach Jill Farmer

 

DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians.

Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable. Our Coaches Will Show You How!

 

Our New Virtual Courses ‘STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back’ and ‘A New Era of Leadership’ are Almost Here!  Learn More Now 

 

 

 

To learn more about DocWorking, visit us here!

 

Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Please email Amanda, our producer at Amanda@docworking.com to apply.

 

And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!

 

We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunes, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Google, Pandora, PlayerFM, ListenNotes, Amazon, YouTube, Podbean

 

Some links in our blogs and show notes are affiliate links, and purchases made via those links may result in small payments to DW. These help toward our production costs. Thank you for supporting DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast!

 

Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.

 

Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran

48: Embracing Conflict for the Sake of Building Better Relationships

“Constructive conflict is kind of like how diamonds are formed by a little bit of pressure. Sometimes when we're in a group and we're pushing back against each other's ideas and saying, ‘Yeah but,’ out of that comes new and innovative ideas, something fresh.” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer

In today’s episode, Coaches Gabriella and Jill sit down to talk about dealing with conflict. Many of us avoid conflict. Why? Because it’s downright uncomfortable. But having those uncomfortable conversations can sometimes lead to growth and other positive things. If nothing else, we learn from it. Tune in to hear how to be the leader of your life by dealing with conflict, getting out of your comfort zone and having courageous conversations. 

Resources from the show:

The Beauty of Conflict: Harnessing Your Team’s Competitive Advantage by CrisMarie Campbell and Susan Clarke

Excerpts from the show:

“Gabriella, why do you think it is that some of us dislike conflict so much?” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer

“It’s uncomfortable. I mean wouldn't that be the thing? That most of us just want to feel at ease and feel safe and feel comfortable. Conflict means that you have to step out of your comfort zone and deal with the elephant in the room and that is not always a comfortable place to be. So yes, most people will try to avoid the conflict. Now what I'm learning about conflict resolution at this point, is that it's important to kind of pick your battles. Are you going to spend your time arguing with someone over a parking spot? Where does your energy in terms of conflict resolution go? Again, from what I'm learning, it has to do with the relationship and how important that relationship is to you and how invested you are in finding a solution that works for both. So the first two things so far are, step one, step out of your comfort zone and be ok with being uncomfortable, because there's no resolution without discomfort. And number two, do you have a vested interest in that particular interaction and that particular relationship to go the extra mile to really see if you can find common ground? What do you think Jill, what have you learned?” -Coach Gabriella Dennery

“Well what I learned that was helpful to me a few years ago when I was co-leading some leadership development stuff in a Fortune 50 company was this idea of constructive conflict versus non-constructive conflict. I was like, ‘What do you mean constructive conflict? There's never a time when it's good.’ Which somebody who can be conflict avoidant like me believes. And I was able to understand that constructive conflict is the type of conflict that has the purpose of embracing different world views and encouraging people to think differently. Constructive conflict is kind of like how diamonds are formed by a little bit of pressure. Sometimes when we're in a group and we're pushing back against each other's ideas and saying, ‘Yeah but,’ out of that comes new and innovative ideas, something fresh. There's all kinds of reasons and we're not going to get into tons of psychology around it. But you know some of us who are conflict adverse maybe lived in a home where there was a lot of conflict and it didn't feel safe to you or you observed at some point in your childhood that people were in conflict and that created some trauma around it. So I'm not being glib or unkind when I say that it doesn't feel good to us. I'm just inviting us and our more wise adult Self, you know the part of us with the capital S, to recognize that a lot of times adults can have differing opinions and different world views. And if we create a container to let that conflict be a little bit constructive, some meaningful things can happen. Like clarification of issues, learning more about each other and considering new ideas. So that's one of the things that comes up for me, what do you think about that Gabriella?” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer

“As always, I agree. I like the idea of constructive conflict and not so constructive conflict. I think that's a brilliant point. Conflict does create a realm of creativity and new ideas and new possibilities and again it’s the willingness to be uncomfortable and go down in those spaces. And as you bring up, it's ok to disagree. It's ok to agree to disagree. Sometimes that's the end of the conversation. We agreed to disagree but that doesn't mean we're at each other's throats. So that would be one aspect of conflict resolution, sometimes it's time to walk away but with the agreement to disagree. Depending on how complicated the issue is, it can take several conversations. It's not something that's going to happen overnight. So are you invested in making those conversations happen? To go from avoidance to, ‘Ok, let's deal with this. Let's move into a territory where we can say, this needs to be resolved. Let's sit down and hash it out.’ It may take several conversations in several settings to do that but it's necessary. The last thing I wanted to add, Jill, is that it's easy to get all hyped up about a conflict. To get reactive about a conflict. It's easy to point fingers and blame. Especially when we're in those kinds of reactive spaces. At the same time, good conflict resolution from my understanding really has to do with looking at one thing at a time and trying not to pile on a bunch of different things. ‘But you said. But you did.’ As opposed to, ‘Let's deal with one issue.’ Again, I'm not an expert in this at all. I'm still learning about it and the question is whether or not it's a better approach to look at one topic at a time as opposed to trying to resolve a whole big pile of stuff. Just start with one thing, what do you think about that?” - Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

“I think it's brilliant. And again, Adam Grant, who does some really great work in organizational psychology, says when somebody else gets defensive or aggressive then biologically we go right into defense or aggressive mode as well. So then what happens a lot of times my default is to turn into the prosecutor. ‘Let me give you all the reasons,’ right? And I'm prosecuting my case to win. So when I can recognize that I don't need to pile on the prosecution, I need to go, ‘Ok, let's go back to this one point, take a deep breath.’ Right? A lot of times when we're in an activated emotional state, that's where we are reacting without thinking and we're not responding. So one of the things I like to think about in conflict resolution is that emotional agility thing. I can still have my feeling. I'm not stuffing it down. I can even say I'm a little irritated right now or I'm triggered, I feel frustrated, take a deep breath and say, ‘So let's talk about this point. I hear you saying X’. Reflecting what the other person says can be another good way in a heated conversation. ‘I hear you saying this, this is how that makes me feel, this is how I experience that and I have a different idea.’ A lot of times it's just slowing down the back-and-forth where we just start flinging things at each other, so that we can have a little more space and a little more of what we would describe as a meaningful or courageous conversation and not just another petty argument where we're talking in the same circles. Sometimes it can help us later on even if we said something that we wish we didn't or we had one of those, ‘Oh gosh, why did that happen?’ moments. It's ok to ask ourselves what the other person felt threatened about, just be curious, like you're an anthropologist, and ask yourself what was happening in that situation. And then for yourself, what was feeling threatened for me? For me, a lot of times it's the ability to be right. I don't like being threatened by that. And then I can be like, ‘Oh you funny little person Jill, once again you're trying to be right.’ And who cares if you're right? What if you can both be right? How do we make space for that? So those are ideas I think that can help us when it comes to conflict. And I think you and I are both proof that sometimes even though we don't love conflict, we both have had experiences of being willing to have those courageous conversations and what we would describe as a little bit of that constructive conflict. And moving through the resolution there, can be some of the benefits from it as well.”  -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer

Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

Get One-on-One Coaching with Master-Certified Coach Jill Farmer

 

DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians.

 

Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable.

Our Coaches Will Show You How!

 

Our New Virtual Courses ‘STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back’ and ‘A New Era of Leadership’ are Almost Here!  Learn More Now 

 

To learn more about DocWorking, visit us here!

 

Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Please email Amanda, our producer at Amanda@docworking.com to apply.

 

And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!

 

We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunes, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Google, Pandora, PlayerFM, ListenNotes, Amazon, YouTube, Podbean

 

Some links in our blogs and show notes are affiliate links, and purchases made via those links may result in small payments to DW. These help toward our production costs. Thank you for supporting DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast!

 

Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.

 

Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran

47: Editor's Pick: (Importance of Setting Boundaries)

“I admit that I’m a recovering people pleaser. In that recovery process, I thought, ‘something is wrong, I feel irritated by what this person just said to me. But I can’t seem to stop it because I’m here to serve. Therefore it’s okay, I’ll just tolerate what is happening.’ And it could be any number of examples, whether it was patients, colleagues, or even at home.  I wasn’t terribly good at setting boundaries. And it became clear that it was exhausting, and really not a very self honoring situation to be in. So I had to learn how to to do it. It is not a skill I was born with. I don’t know if it’s a skill anyone is born with, and to be honest it is something you need to cultivate over time.” - Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

 

Join co-lead Coaches at DocWorking, Gabriella Dennery MD and Jill Farmer as they sit down to talk boundaries. We learn why boundaries are important and that they aren’t just important for us, but also for the people in our lives. We learn that having boundaries isn’t mean, it is actually helpful and the kind thing to do. Not having clear boundaries makes life and relationships messy but having clear boundaries cleans things up. Listen to find out how to implement boundaries in your life and live with the freedom it gives to you and those around you!

 

Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD

Get One-on-One Coaching with Master-Certified Coach Jill Farmer

 

Our New Virtual Courses ‘STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back’ and ‘A New Era of Leadership’ are Almost Here!  Learn More Now 

DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians.

Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable.

Our Coaches Will Show You How!

To learn more about DocWorking, visit docworking.com

 

 

We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunes, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Google, PlayerFM, ListenNotes, Amazon, YouTube, Podbean

 

Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Reach out to Amanda at Amanda@docworking.com to apply.

And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!

 

Some links in our blogs and show notes are affiliate links, and purchases made via those links may result in small payments to DW. These help toward our production costs. Thank you for supporting DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast!

Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.

 

Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran

46: Competing in a Different Arena with Dr. Shellaine Frazier

“Instead of getting together and playing cards, we get together and lift heavy weights. It's just been a great community to be in.” -Shellaine Frazier D.O.

In today’s episode, host Dr. Jen Barna talks with pathologist Dr. Shellaine Frazier. But she isn’t only a board certified anatomic and clinical pathologist, she is also a world champion weightlifter! They discuss everything from how she came to be a pathologist to how she discovered her passion for weightlifting. From there, they discuss community building, building bone density as you age, and more! 

 

Dr. Shellaine Frazier attended medical school at Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine, she completed her internship at the Cleveland Clinic Foundation, she completed her pathology residency at University of Missouri Health Care. She is the Associate Professor of Clinical Pathology at the University of Missouri and also the Medical School Curriculum Oversight Director.

 

Books and articles mentioned in the show:

 

Lafontaine T, Frazier S: High Intensity Resistance and High-Impact Training and Bone Mineral Density – A Narrative Review: Part 1 NSCA Coach Feb 2019:6(1):16-20

 

Lafontaine T, Frazier S: High Intensity Resistance and High-Impact Training and Bone Mineral Density – Sample Training Program: Part 2

 

Robbins & Cotran Pathologic Basis of Disease, (click to purchase).

 

Excerpts from the show:

 

“Can you tell us about your decision to become a doctor and how you imagined life as a doctor would be?” -Dr. Jen Barna 

 

“Yeah, so it's kind of a funny story. So my dad was a barber and he had a client that was a pathologist, which is what I am, and he would talk to him. You know how barbers are, they're kind of like therapists. So as he got to know him, he learned what the pathologist’s life was about and he said, ‘You need to be a pathologist.’ He said, ‘That’s the best money for the nicest life.’ So that was actually in junior high. I wanted to be a pathologist. So what happened after that was, I'm sure our audience is probably not old enough to remember the old forensic TV show Quincy from the 70s time period, but I watched that and I saw that Quincy had an MD after his name. So I was like, ‘Oh. I have to go to medical school to be a pathologist. Ok, well that's gonna be a long road.’ But I persevered and just having that goal in mind made me pursue opportunities to look into pathology. Of course, I was drawn in by the forensics and all the drama of that, which is not as dramatic as people probably think it is, as it's displayed on the TV show. As I took opportunities to shadow a pathologist, I learned what pathology was and how broad of a discipline it is. I actually decided I really didn't want to do forensic pathology at all. So I ended up just being a surgical pathologist. I'm board certified in anatomic and clinical pathology. But my career path has always been predominantly an anatomic pathologist in surgical pathology. So that's kind of how I got here and my dad was right. It is a really good job in healthcare. It's a good job for work-life balance.” -Shellaine Frazier D.O.

 

“I want to hear about the weightlifting as well, because that is where you have become a world champion. So how did you go from doing aerobics at home to becoming a world champion powerlifter?” -Dr. Jen Barna

 

“So at one point after I'd done P90X and I started getting involved and running, I actually had a resident who was into triathlons and she said, ‘You need to do a triathlon.’ She was actually coaching a team in training. She said, ‘You need to go get your VO2 max tested.’ So there was a health and fitness center in Columbia and I went to go get my VO2 max tested there. The person that tested me was Tom LaFontaine. He has a PhD in exercise physiology. He's worked with world class athletes and he came in first or second in a world duathlon and I believe he made the Olympic team or was just shy of making the Olympic team in the kind of weightlifting where you throw the bar over your head... So he was sort of a biphasic athlete also and he had a very energetic personality. He told me I needed to join the gym and that I needed to lift more weights because it would help me with my running. Long story short, we worked together for quite some time. He and his wife at the time and I and one other woman at the gym got this idea to make a group of ‘older women on weights.’ I don't know if you’d call it a club because you don't have to qualify to be in it. But we started getting really involved with recruiting a really big team of people. It was probably up to 40 or 50 at the time just from Columbia. It was women between 40 and 70+ years of age that became power lifters. And we are competing in powerlifting. So I had gotten into a few meets just because Tom wanted me to do a few because unbeknownst to me, my biggest athletic gift is bench press. I just had a lot of aptitude for that and he recognized that, so he encouraged me to be in some meets. His wife and a friend were sitting in the crowd at one of our meets and they were like, ‘We can break those records.’ So from that the ‘Older Women on Weights’ thing was created. So we have this huge team of women that are competitive powerlifters all the way up to 70+ years in age.” -Shellaine Frazier D.O.

 

“There are a lot of different powerlifting federations. We are pretty small on the scale of different federations of powerlifting and they all have their own records. We are without a doubt the strictest federation on drug control. We actually have drug-free in our name and that was very important to me because this was supposed to be promoting a healthy lifestyle, weight lifting as part of a healthy lifestyle, so that women, as they aged, could remain independent and not look like the 70-year-olds that a lot of 70-year-olds look like. So it was really important to me to be in a very strictly drug controlled federation. So that's predominately where I lifted, although I lifted in a few others. So that's the American Drug Free Powerlifting Federation. It's an all volunteer Federation. I'm actually the drug control officer, so I know that we strictly control drug use. Even a hint of anabolic steroids, and you're banned for life. So with that being said, there were a lot of open American records in my age group. So the way that records work is there's an open category which is the youngsters, mostly that's where the 20 to 39-year-olds fit. That's usually the most competitive age group. Then every five years after that. It's based on your body weight to weight lifted. So to win your age group doesn't necessarily mean that you lifted more than the person that weighed twice as much as you. It just means that based on the ratio of what you weighed to what you lifted, you did the best. I qualified in the United States to go to my first World meet which was actually in the United States. I qualified and I was super excited. That meet was ok, I didn't set any records at that meet. But from there on, I just kept lifting and eventually went to world meets in Belgium, France, Wales and England. I almost always win in the bench press and I used to almost always win my age and weight division in the deadlift. In the bench press at world level, I didn't beat people in the open category but in the United States I almost always won even in the open when I was in my 40s. I had my very best meet in the bench press when I was 48. I think the highest I ever lifted was 76.5 kg and that was at a body weight maybe about 51.5 kg.” -Shellaine Frazier D.O.

 

“I’m still very involved in our resident recruitment committee. So I interview a lot of resident candidates for our department and I always ask them questions that nobody else asks. I'm like, ‘What do you do outside of work?’ And I usually say, ‘Don't tell me that you read Robbins, because I don't want to hear that you just read Robbins.’ Then I have to say, ’It's not a trick question, because you're going to spend four years of your life here and you have to be happy outside of the walls of the hospital. Not only do we have to like you, but you have to like us, and you have to like the community that you live in, and you have to have things that you de-stress with.’ Anyway, maybe I've run a few candidates off, I don't know. But I always tell them that.” -Shellaine Frazier D.O.

 

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